Holder wants recruiting to improve

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Cimarron

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Jun 28, 2007
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#21
Listened to the podcast. I didn't know if linking that was frowned upon here but he seemed to be saying the same thing that some on here are mocked for, we need more 4 / 5 star guys and thinks Gundy could aim higher on his recruiting philosophy.

I didn't sense any feud. Said they want the same thing, Gundy has been great, but sometimes people have different approaches. Ultimately it's Gundy's program.
I don't think anyone is mocking the idea that we would like the best recruits available. I think the point is you cann't just wish them here. The athletes have to want to be here.

According to 247 Sports there are 34 5 star recruits, 19 of those have committed. Of those 19 commits 14 of them have committed within their home state or an adjoining state.

Of the 34 recruits there are a sum total of 6 in Oklahoma or an adjoining state.

Another way to look at it. Leaving Oklahoma State out of it and you were a 5 star recruit what would be your determing factors of where you went to play college football?

For me it would be....

1) College I and my family rooted for growing up
2) Any ties my immediate family may have to a university (maybe its where they went to school)
3) Proximity to home so my family can attend games easily
4) A program with nice facilities
5) A program that can prepare me for the NFL
4) A program that wins championships


Right now OSU has out 22 offers to 5 & 4 star recruits. 3 of those are committed, 1 to Oklahoma State.

Of the remaining 19 they average 23.4 offers!
 

Cro

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Apr 6, 2010
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#22
I don't think anyone is mocking the idea that we would like the best recruits available. I think the point is you cann't just wish them here. The athletes have to want to be here.

According to 247 Sports there are 34 5 star recruits, 19 of those have committed. Of those 19 commits 14 of them have committed within their home state or an adjoining state.

Of the 34 recruits there are a sum total of 6 in Oklahoma or an adjoining state.

Another way to look at it. Leaving Oklahoma State out of it and you were a 5 star recruit what would be your determing factors of where you went to play college football?

For me it would be....

1) College I and my family rooted for growing up
2) Any ties my immediate family may have to a university (maybe its where they went to school)
3) Proximity to home so my family can attend games easily
4) A program with nice facilities
5) A program that can prepare me for the NFL
4) A program that wins championships


Right now OSU has out 22 offers to 5 & 4 star recruits. 3 of those are committed, 1 to Oklahoma State.

Of the remaining 19 they average 23.4 offers!
Thank you, Cimarron. I think some posters on this board think Gundy and Co, just pass by the 4 and 5 star kids, and focus solely on projects.......
 
Oct 27, 2003
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#24
I think Gundy has a grasp of the type of kids he wants, factoring in attitude, character, teamwork, and academics. Sometimes it's better to have a 3* athlete with 5* attributes than say, a 4* Devon Thomas.
He is a great talent evaluator. He has an ability to see potential and uncover hidden gems.


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Nov 6, 2010
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#25
I think Gundy has a grasp of the type of kids he wants, factoring in attitude, character, teamwork, and academics. Sometimes it's better to have a 3* athlete with 5* attributes than say, a 4* Devon Thomas.
I really think it is this. If you look at our recruiting in the early years, we took chances on character guys that were highly rated, Prentis Elliott, the linebacker from Texarkana, Perrish Cox, etc. We also almost got dinged for APR a few years ago. Not so much anymore. Seems we're having our pick of the 3* kids and are getting the ones that we know will be here 4 or 5 years, stay out of trouble for the most part, graduate, etc. As a result, we don't end up with huge holes in the roster due to suspensions and the like. We can redshirt good players with confidence they'll be here for their senior years. Just look at the linebacker we just got a commitment from in Louisiana. Not many big offers, but 4.0 GPA. He will probably end up being a 3* that several schools will want, but we got in early and he will be here. Now Tech or KState will have to go Juco or settle for a 3* of equal talent that has "work to do in the classroom." All that being said, to win conference championships, you do need those first round draft picks, and there aren't many of those in the 3* ranks.
 
Mar 8, 2010
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#26
For me it's not about 4 or 5 stars as much as it is about who else wants them. I wish we could get more guys that the football blue bloods want rather than what Wake Forest or Navy wants.
 

Cimarron

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#27
I really think it is this. If you look at our recruiting in the early years, we took chances on character guys that were highly rated, Prentis Elliott, the linebacker from Texarkana, Perrish Cox, etc. We also almost got dinged for APR a few years ago. Not so much anymore. Seems we're having our pick of the 3* kids and are getting the ones that we know will be here 4 or 5 years, stay out of trouble for the most part, graduate, etc. As a result, we don't end up with huge holes in the roster due to suspensions and the like. We can redshirt good players with confidence they'll be here for their senior years. Just look at the linebacker we just got a commitment from in Louisiana. Not many big offers, but 4.0 GPA. He will probably end up being a 3* that several schools will want, but we got in early and he will be here. Now Tech or KState will have to go Juco or settle for a 3* of equal talent that has "work to do in the classroom." All that being said, to win conference championships, you do need those first round draft picks, and there aren't many of those in the 3* ranks.
Prentis Elliott was a 3* recruit.
 

Cimarron

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#28
Apparently, holder is wanting more elite recruits to hit the streets of stillwater. Sounds like holder and gundy maybe feuding soon. Either way, it would be nice to get some 5 star defensive tackles.
So, how does Holder think this happens?

Some of those kids will have their hands out.
 

Jostate

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#29
Thank you, Cimarron. I think some posters on this board think Gundy and Co, just pass by the 4 and 5 star kids, and focus solely on projects.......
Gundy talks often about the kind of kid that would want to play in Stillwater, as if many kids are out of reach. Anyway, this was Holder saying Gundy needs to upgrade the talent, not some random poster.
 
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Jostate

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So, how does Holder think this happens?

Some of those kids will have their hands out.
I'm sure Holder is aware of the challenges, and demands we do it the right way. His story of stealing a Stanford golf recruit was intended to illustrate that some salesmanship was required. Gundy seems like a good salesman to me.

It isn't easy. But people generally aren't paid $5 mil / year to do an easy job.
 
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Cimarron

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I'm sure Holder is aware of the challenges, and demands we do it the right way. His story of stealing a Stanford golf recruit was intended to illustrate that some salesmanship was required. Gunny seems like a good salesman to me.

It isn't easy. But people generally aren't paid $5 mil / year to do an easy job.
Golf recruiting is a bit different than football, not near as many donor dollars floating around.

I've always thought if a sports writter wanted to write a good article she or he would check out the athletic parking lots on campus and correlate the value of the athletes cars to winning percentage.
 

Jostate

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#32
Golf recruiting is a bit different than football, not near as many donor dollars floating around.

I've always thought if a sports writter wanted to write a good article she or he would check out the athletic parking lots on campus and correlate the value of the athletes cars to winning percentage.
May be right. Of course stealing a kid from Stanford is tough in any sport. Holder is the kind of guy who doesn't believe anything is impossible.

Gundy was reminded last year Conference or national titles are not required for job security or big paychecks. I know he's a competitor who hates to lose. But I think he hates dealing with poor character players even more.
 
Oct 30, 2007
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#33
I didn't hear the podcast, but I agree with what Coach Holder said. He built Karsten Creek and used it to attract some of the best golf recruits in the world to Stillwater, Oklahoma. He used those recruits to win 25 conference championships and 8 national championships. He didn't accept good, he always strove for greatness. He's walked the path he wants Coach Gundy to walk.

Labron Harris laid a great foundation for Coach Holder to follow in. Coach Gundy had a lot further to go to make us an elite football program. We've come a long way, but Holder doesn't want Gundy to rest on his laurels and become complacent with being good. I respect that.

We've always found elite offensive skill players under Coach Gundy regardless of recruiting stars, but we've never recruited the talent level on defense required to be an elite football program. We're going to have to recruit at a higher level to become an elite program capable of winning a national championship. You can't do that without a balanced roster full of NFL talent on both sides of the ball.
 
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#34
I didn't hear the podcast, but I agree with what Coach Holder said. He built Karsten Creek and used it to attract some of the best golf recruits in the world to Stillwater, Oklahoma. He used those recruits to win 25 conference championships and 8 national championships. He didn't accept good, he always strove for greatness. He's walked the path he wants Coach Gundy to walk.

Labron Harris laid a great foundation for Coach Holder to follow in. Coach Gundy had a lot further to go to make us an elite football program. We've come a long way, but Holder doesn't want Gundy to rest on his laurels and become complacent with being good. I respect that.

We've always found elite offensive skill players under Coach Gundy regardless of recruiting stars, but we've never recruited the talent level on defense required to be an elite football program. We're going to have to recruit at a higher level to become an elite program capable of winning a national championship. You can't do that without a balanced roster full of NFL talent on both sides of the ball.
You’re talking golf? Golf? Apples to oranges.


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Oct 30, 2007
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#38
You’re talking golf? Golf? Apples to oranges.


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The formula is pretty simple;
Step 1 - Hire elite coaching staff.
Step 2 - Recruit elite talent.
Step 3 - Develop talent and become an elite program.
Step 4 - Win championships.

Football is a much more crowded arena to compete in, but the overall process is the same. If Dabo Swinney can build an elite football program at a non-blue blood program, Coach Gundy can too. Coach Swinney did this by elevating the recruiting Level at Clemson. Coach Gundy will have to do the same if he wants to move us to the next level.
 
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#39
You’re talking golf? Golf? Apples to oranges.


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The formula is pretty simple;
Step 1 - Hire elite coaching staff.
Step 2 - Recruit elite talent.
Step 3 - Develop talent and become an elite program.
Step 4 - Win championships.

Football is a much more crowded arena to compete in, but the overall process is the same. If Dabo Swinney can build an elite football program at a non-blue blood program, Coach Gundy can too. Coach Swinney did this by elevating the recruiting Level at Clemson. Coach Gundy will have to do the same if he wants to move us to the next level.
You do know Clemson had a NC in football long before Dabo Swinney? Again apples to oranges.


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Cowbot

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#40
You’re talking golf? Golf? Apples to oranges.


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The formula is pretty simple;
Step 1 - Hire elite coaching staff.
Step 2 - Recruit elite talent.
Step 3 - Develop talent and become an elite program.
Step 4 - Win championships.

Football is a much more crowded arena to compete in, but the overall process is the same. If Dabo Swinney can build an elite football program at a non-blue blood program, Coach Gundy can too. Coach Swinney did this by elevating the recruiting Level at Clemson. Coach Gundy will have to do the same if he wants to move us to the next level.
You do know Clemson had a NC in football long before Dabo Swinney? Again apples to oranges.


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Ummm... I know it’s not the same but still.


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