Hill to the Ravens

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Nov 27, 2007
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#24
I wonder who was telling him that his ability at this point in his career was good enough to play for pay. I hope he has fired them.
How is not getting drafted a bad thing? To be honest, I’d much rather not be drafted and sign a UFA deal than be drafted in rounds 5-7 and go to bad program. The pay is about the same and you can go to a contender or a place you won’t be buried in the depth chart.

So now he signed a deal with the Texans, a team that is contending for championship. Has just as much of a chance to make the roster and makes just as much money as a guy drafted in late rounds.
 

Jostate

CPTNQUIRK called me a greenhorn
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Jun 24, 2005
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#25
Has just as much of a chance to make the roster and makes just as much money as a guy drafted in late rounds.
Just less money than he probably would have made after another year of college.
 
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Feb 4, 2016
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#27
How is not getting drafted a bad thing? To be honest, I’d much rather not be drafted and sign a UFA deal than be drafted in rounds 5-7 and go to bad program. The pay is about the same and you can go to a contender or a place you won’t be buried in the depth chart.

So now he signed a deal with the Texans, a team that is contending for championship. Has just as much of a chance to make the roster and makes just as much money as a guy drafted in late rounds.
It's a terrible thing if you still have a year of eligibility left. Who knows what kind of numbers he would have put up this upcoming year. He could have worked on his shortcomings, spent time with Coach Dunn and had the added experience of working with a new OC. Now his best case scenario is working on the practice squad. I think he made a mistake by leaving early.
 
Nov 27, 2007
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#28
Just less money than he probably would have made after another year of college.
It's a terrible thing if you still have a year of eligibility left. Who knows what kind of numbers he would have put up this upcoming year. He could have worked on his shortcomings, spent time with Coach Dunn and had the added experience of working with a new OC. Now his best case scenario is working on the practice squad. I think he made a mistake by leaving early.
Rookie contracts are regulated and on a scale based on draft position. Unless you’re drafted in the first two rounds, the amount difference between a 3rd round guy and a UFA is not that much. Especially considering the fact that you lose a year of $400k minimum earnings. It’s highly unlikely that if he “doesn’t have the talent” to be drafted this year, one more year will catapult him into the 2nd round even with all those things you mentioned.

Yes he could have a good year, but he could have a bad year too, or injury.

Undrafted free agents make the roster all of the time. He may end up on a PS but it’s a stretch to say that’s best case.
 
Aug 22, 2006
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#29
Just less money than he probably would have made after another year of college.
That's speculation because he wasn't better than Wallace and CJ Moore is coming up too compete with him for attempts, not to mention the new OC and the use of the TE/CW in the offense. It may have been his best option to try for the draft. For me he never was the difference maker that a 5* should be but I wish him the best at the next level.
 
Feb 27, 2018
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#30
From Kelly Hines...

He had to wait 40 hours and 40 minutes from the start of the NFL draft to hear his name called, but former Oklahoma State running back Justice Hill landed in a seemingly ideal situation.

A Tulsa native, Hill was taken early in Saturday’s fourth round, going 113th overall to the Baltimore Ravens – a team featuring elite offensive speed from the likes of quarterback Lamar Jackson and newly acquired receivers Marquise Brown out of Oklahoma and Miles Boykin out of Notre Dame.

“(Hill is a) perfect fit with Lamar and an RPO-style offense,” OSU coach Mike Gundy told GoPokes.com.

Hill’s speed likely made him an easy pick, having recorded the fastest 40-yard dash time among the running backs at the NFL combine in Indianapolis: 4.4 seconds.

“It’s a chance to add more speed to this offense,” Ravens scouting director Joe Hortiz told reporters. “He makes guys look bad in space.”
 

SLVRBK

Johnny 8ball's PR Manager
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Oct 16, 2003
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#31
How is not getting drafted a bad thing? To be honest, I’d much rather not be drafted and sign a UFA deal than be drafted in rounds 5-7 and go to bad program. The pay is about the same and you can go to a contender or a place you won’t be buried in the depth chart.

So now he signed a deal with the Texans, a team that is contending for championship. Has just as much of a chance to make the roster and makes just as much money as a guy drafted in late rounds.
I think he will have a good shot with the Texans.

Fuller hasn't played a full season sinbce being drafted. Coutee missed half the year. At one point last season the Texans had the 3rd string QB playing receiver.
 

Celldweller7

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#32
Rookie contracts are regulated and on a scale based on draft position. Unless you’re drafted in the first two rounds, the amount difference between a 3rd round guy and a UFA is not that much. Especially considering the fact that you lose a year of $400k minimum earnings. It’s highly unlikely that if he “doesn’t have the talent” to be drafted this year, one more year will catapult him into the 2nd round even with all those things you mentioned.

Yes he could have a good year, but he could have a bad year too, or injury.

Undrafted free agents make the roster all of the time. He may end up on a PS but it’s a stretch to say that’s best case.
For the average player getting drafted late or being UFA, the little bit of money is actually pretty big since the majority will not make it past a first contract. They're losing hundreds of thousands, if not a million dollars after the signing bonus is factored in. That's just a 7th rounder vs UFA. A 3rd rounder is making a lot more cash over a first contract if we think about it in real person terms. 4th rounders get $400-$600k in signing bonus. A 7th rounder typically gets less than $100k, which is still usually more than UFAs.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-draft-contract-values-2017-4

"In 2018, a UFA contract was worth $1.71 million over three years, starting at the NFL minimum salary of $480,000 per year. Only a small fraction of the contract is guaranteed.

By comparison, the final pick of the seventh round of the 2019 draft -- Cardinals tight end Caleb Wilson -- is expected to sign a four-year deal worth $2.59 million if he makes the team. The average annual salary for the last seventh-round pick is $648,572 compared to $570,000 for the UFA.

For the players who never make it past a first contract, the draft spot usually is a better deal than a UFA financially because it comes with a much larger signing bonus."

https://www.nj.com/giants/2019/04/n...ed-free-agent-and-rookie-minicamp-tryout.html
 
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Nov 27, 2007
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#33
For the average player getting drafted late or being UFA, the little bit of money is actually pretty big since the majority will not make it past a first contract. They're losing hundreds of thousands, if not a million dollars after the signing bonus is factored in. That's just a 7th rounder vs UFA. A 3rd rounder is making a lot more cash over a first contract if we think about it in real person terms. 4th rounders get $400-$600k in signing bonus. A 7th rounder typically gets less than $100k, which is still usually more than UFAs.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-draft-contract-values-2017-4

"In 2018, a UFA contract was worth $1.71 million over three years, starting at the NFL minimum salary of $480,000 per year. Only a small fraction of the contract is guaranteed.

By comparison, the final pick of the seventh round of the 2019 draft -- Cardinals tight end Caleb Wilson -- is expected to sign a four-year deal worth $2.59 million if he makes the team. The average annual salary for the last seventh-round pick is $648,572 compared to $570,000 for the UFA.

For the players who never make it past a first contract, the draft spot usually is a better deal than a UFA financially because it comes with a much larger signing bonus."

https://www.nj.com/giants/2019/04/n...ed-free-agent-and-rookie-minicamp-tryout.html
Exactly the point I was making! Unless you get in the top couple rounds the difference is not very much. In the quoted example of a 7th rounder vs a UFA the approximate difference in salary is $78,500. The player would have to play over 7 years at that contracted price to make up for the year of lost revenue in salary alone. If you added in difference in signing bonus it still wouldn’t break even over the course of the rookie contract.
As the article states, the only person it would benifit in late rounds is the guy that gets drafted vs UFA and doesn’t make the team. A UFA has the same opportunity to make the 52 man roster as a drafted player. Getting to choose your destination may actually work in your favor.
 
Sep 29, 2011
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#34
For the average player getting drafted late or being UFA, the little bit of money is actually pretty big since the majority will not make it past a first contract. They're losing hundreds of thousands, if not a million dollars after the signing bonus is factored in. That's just a 7th rounder vs UFA. A 3rd rounder is making a lot more cash over a first contract if we think about it in real person terms. 4th rounders get $400-$600k in signing bonus. A 7th rounder typically gets less than $100k, which is still usually more than UFAs.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-draft-contract-values-2017-4

"In 2018, a UFA contract was worth $1.71 million over three years, starting at the NFL minimum salary of $480,000 per year. Only a small fraction of the contract is guaranteed.

By comparison, the final pick of the seventh round of the 2019 draft -- Cardinals tight end Caleb Wilson -- is expected to sign a four-year deal worth $2.59 million if he makes the team. The average annual salary for the last seventh-round pick is $648,572 compared to $570,000 for the UFA.

For the players who never make it past a first contract, the draft spot usually is a better deal than a UFA financially because it comes with a much larger signing bonus."

https://www.nj.com/giants/2019/04/n...ed-free-agent-and-rookie-minicamp-tryout.html
Exactly the point I was making! Unless you get in the top couple rounds the difference is not very much. In the quoted example of a 7th rounder vs a UFA the approximate difference in salary is $78,500. The player would have to play over 7 years at that contracted price to make up for the year of lost revenue in salary alone. If you added in difference in signing bonus it still wouldn’t break even over the course of the rookie contract.
As the article states, the only person it would benifit in late rounds is the guy that gets drafted vs UFA and doesn’t make the team. A UFA has the same opportunity to make the 52 man roster as a drafted player. Getting to choose your destination may actually work in your favor.
An UFA does not have the same chance to make a roster. All ties, or even close to a tie goes to the drafted player. Johnson better learn how to run better routes real fast. No way he sticks, even on a practice squad, if he doesn’t get way better.


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Celldweller7

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#35
Exactly the point I was making! Unless you get in the top couple rounds the difference is not very much. In the quoted example of a 7th rounder vs a UFA the approximate difference in salary is $78,500. The player would have to play over 7 years at that contracted price to make up for the year of lost revenue in salary alone. If you added in difference in signing bonus it still wouldn’t break even over the course of the rookie contract.
As the article states, the only person it would benifit in late rounds is the guy that gets drafted vs UFA and doesn’t make the team. A UFA has the same opportunity to make the 52 man roster as a drafted player. Getting to choose your destination may actually work in your favor.
I don't see how you're supporting your point.

A 7th rounder makes more money per year and gets a signing bonus of around $60,000. The UFA makes less per year and get less, if any, signing bonus. How is it better to be a UFA financially?

The average wide receiver lasts about 2 years in the NFL. If you have 2 seasons to cash in, losing $220,000 matters.
 
Feb 27, 2018
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#36
From Kelly Hines...

Five former Oklahoma State football players have signed with NFL teams as undrafted free agents: Defensive end Jarrell Owens (Cleveland Browns), linebacker Justin Phillips (Dallas Cowboys), receiver Tyron Johnson (Houston Texans), quarterback Taylor Cornelius (Green Bay Packers) and fullback Britton Abbott (New York Giants).

Owens is coming off a second-team All-Big 12 season in which he recorded 31 tackles, including 11 for lost yardage, and six sacks with five quarterback hurries.

Last season, Phillips led the Cowboys with 98 tackles and was tied with Owens for second on the team with 11 tackles for lost yardage. He also had two sacks, five quarterback hurries and three pass breakups.
 
Oct 7, 2015
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#37
I know you can never really hold it against someone for doing what's best for them and their family, but I felt disappointed by Justice last season. Nonetheless, I hope he does well in the NFL!
I tend to agree thinking that Justice didn't want to get more hurt and ruin his chances for an NFL career and millions of dollars that come with that career.
Plus, I think he saw that OSU would be just fine with Chuba "The Canadian Flyer" Hubbard carrying the rock.

I'd venture to say that less than 20% of the guys that play on this team sign up thinking about just getting a degree and starting a family while working at their new career as an marketing consultant for an OKC or Tulsa firm.

These athletes that are recruited by Power 5 schools want to go pro, bro.
Would you have passed on a $10M pay day and taken the same risks?
 
Aug 22, 2006
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#38
I tend to agree thinking that Justice didn't want to get more hurt and ruin his chances for an NFL career and millions of dollars that come with that career.
Plus, I think he saw that OSU would be just fine with Chuba "The Canadian Flyer" Hubbard carrying the rock.

I'd venture to say that less than 20% of the guys that play on this team sign up thinking about just getting a degree and starting a family while working at their new career as an marketing consultant for an OKC or Tulsa firm.

These athletes that are recruited by Power 5 schools want to go pro, bro.
Would you have passed on a $10M pay day and taken the same risks?
Probably I would have, I have always had a sense of loyalty to every team I have participated on that's whats great about being on a team knowing that you have guys that always have your back. If he was worried about getting injured, there is the same risk in practicing. He wouldn't have been passing on anything really to play against TCU and in the Bowl game if anything he might have improved his draft status. Would you be willing to draft a guy that and pay him $10M if he quit on his team to go somewhere else?
 
Jun 11, 2016
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#39
Probably I would have, I have always had a sense of loyalty to every team I have participated on that's whats great about being on a team knowing that you have guys that always have your back. If he was worried about getting injured, there is the same risk in practicing. He wouldn't have been passing on anything really to play against TCU and in the Bowl game if anything he might have improved his draft status. Would you be willing to draft a guy that and pay him $10M if he quit on his team to go somewhere else?
Nobody said Justice wasn't loyal. That dude busted his ass every year every play and I am beyond fine with him sitting out. Remember a guy named Ed O'Bannon? Busted his knee up and never was the same. Even if you are 100% healthy, some guys can't get over that mental hump that comes with something like that. You can say "Yeah I would have passed", but I smell BS. 10M is life changing money. Hell 1M is pretty life changing.
 
Sep 29, 2011
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#40
Probably I would have, I have always had a sense of loyalty to every team I have participated on that's whats great about being on a team knowing that you have guys that always have your back. If he was worried about getting injured, there is the same risk in practicing. He wouldn't have been passing on anything really to play against TCU and in the Bowl game if anything he might have improved his draft status. Would you be willing to draft a guy that and pay him $10M if he quit on his team to go somewhere else?
Nobody said Justice wasn't loyal. That dude busted his ass every year every play and I am beyond fine with him sitting out. Remember a guy named Ed O'Bannon? Busted his knee up and never was the same. Even if you are 100% healthy, some guys can't get over that mental hump that comes with something like that. You can say "Yeah I would have passed", but I smell BS. 10M is life changing money. Hell 1M is pretty life changing.
Can’t field a team if everybody wants to sit out. You accept a scholly to play football and commit to a team, you play or get lost.


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