Health Care and Insurance Industries Mobilize to Kill ‘Medicare for All’

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CaliforniaCowboy

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#21
Who knows how much higher medical bankruptcies would be if hardly any employer paid for part of employees health insurance.

So I gather you have been so well blessed as to stay in excellent health all the time that buying health insurance is a foolish waste of money for you.
put down that bong.... that statement makes ZERO sense. EMPLOYERS DO PAY - which is why we don't need the crap government insurance. Not only that, but the bankruptcies that likely did occur were because of a lapse of insurance or pre-existing condition (which could be easily be addressed without single-payer BS)

Your 2nd paragraph is even more nonsensical. What freaking difference would my health make if I bought insurance on the private market, or if I bought insurance through the government (cause there ain't nothing free).

Buying government products that are substandard to what is available on the market at the thread of going to debtors prison is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

Why is everything only one way or the highway with you? Whether insurance is a waste of money to me, or not, is not relevant. I buy it. Whether I needed too or not. Whether it's wasting my money or not, is MY BUSINESS - not yours.

If I don't want insurance or if I don't need insurance, IT IS NOT YOUR BUSINESS. (nor the business of the freaking federal government)
 

CaliforniaCowboy

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#22
I’ll be the 1st to say our vets deserve the absolute best healthcare & I don’t think you are meaning to turn them over to Humana or BCBS or the like so what is the answer for not just them but everyone? Because if you do that and ACA is repealed by legislation or courts how do you get a vet around pre existing condition? Is it as simple as private insurance, subsidized by the government with a pre existing condition waiver?

I get not expanding government but we’ve got death panels in private insurance. Healthcare decisions are being made by non specialists, by people whose bonus depends on their own decisions.

Every family, every neighbor has a story. My dad loves the VA treatment he gets. Has no problems with wait times. But I know that’s not the case with all vets. I’ve got a family member who is thankful for Medicare and is seeing two of the best dr’s they’ve ever seen.

I’ve got a family friend that our extended family helps out with food every month because the wife requires medical equipment & prescriptions that exhausts their money. They are on Medicare so it does have limitations.

The system is broken and in desperate need of new ideas. Not from politicians or think tanks or insurance CEO’s.
I'm not going to try to respond to your post because you're mixing insurance with healthcare - which are two very different things.

right now, there is no "system". ACA has collapsed, and nothing was introduced to make insurance affordable. The Demoncrats prevented repeal and replace, and now we're left with nothing - which is exactly how they want it. If there is not a crisis (that they created), then they can't swoop in and be the saviors.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

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#23
The joke is already on us as far as prices.
We pay more for public healthcare than most countries that actually give it to all of their citizens.
that can't be true. you're comparing apples to oranges

and besides, those countries do not have availability of the latest and best practices and medicines.

there are valid reasons for these differences, and we feel compelled to address them.


For one thing, even our system’s captious critics admit that it is far easier to manage health outcomes in smaller and more homogeneous countries. The U.S., with a population of 323 million, is far larger than any of the other countries mentioned in the sample. In fact, the mean population for all of them is a mere 69 million. Recent research, including an insightful book by Dr. Buz Cooper, all suggest that poverty and other social determinants have a significant impact on our health and healthcare costs. Unfortunately, the U.S. poverty rate is higher than the other countries at 12.7 percent of the population.

In an accompanying JAMA article also published in March 2018, Ezekiel J. Emanuel, MD, observes that “administrative costs contribute significantly to the cost difference between the U.S. and others used in the comparison.” This is a point on which Papanicolas et al resoundingly agree. Emanuel also mentions that a major driver of cost differences is high-margin, high volume procedures. For example, he points to knee replacements where the U.S. performs nearly twice as many per capita as in the Netherlands.

Tim had a knee replacement himself in May and enjoys far greater mobility. He also has a tennis friend in Connecticut who in the past year had both knees replaced and is back to playing tennis three times a week. His age: 90! We suspect that it would be very difficult, if not impossible, for a 90-year-old to receive two knee replacements in any of the other countries and in a very timely fashion. However, much of America prides itself on physical fitness and quality of life at every age. The price of this is certainly reflected in our higher healthcare costs.

Papanicolas et al also call attention to the fact that the U.S. performed the second highest number of MRI scans per capita (behind Japan) and the most CT scans. We don’t find that unusual,

https://www.forbes.com/sites/physic...-other-countries-are-misleading/#2d3c60181232
 

CaliforniaCowboy

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#24
The Cost of Health Care

In terms of government spending on health care, Switzerland isn’t terribly different from the United States. Indeed, with the exception of high-spending Norway, per-capita government spending on health care is pretty consistent across a selection of advanced countries with very different health-care systems: Switzerland, the United States, the Netherlands, Sweden, Germany, and Denmark all have similar per-capita outlays. Interestingly, none of those countries has a national single-payer system: Sweden and Denmark have largely public systems, but they are run mostly by local governments rather than by the national government.

one of the reasons the Swiss and the Americans spend relatively large sums on health care may be the structure of the insurance markets; it might simply be that they are rich countries in which consumers choose to consume more health care, which would explain why Sweden and Canada are in the club of relatively big spenders. And low medical spending is not necessarily a sign of health: They don’t spend very much on health care in Cameroon.
https://fee.org/articles/why-the-swiss-health-care-model-will-never-work-in-america/
 

CaliforniaCowboy

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#26
How are you drawing the distinction here?
being on medicare and finding the best doctors in their lives are unrelated events. One is insurance, the other is about the provider.... unless you were suggesting that only doctors that work on medicare patients are good (which I'm sure you were not).

needing food because medicine is too expensive is not necessarily a function of medicare, that medicine might be higher (or lower) on private insurance. Some medicines being too expensive is a function of that industry, not insurance, per se, especially not something that would be solved by single-payer socialism
 
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#27
being on medicare and finding the best doctors in their lives are unrelated events. One is insurance, the other is about the provider.... unless you were suggesting that only doctors that work on medicare patients are good (which I'm sure you were not).

needing food because medicine is too expensive is not necessarily a function of medicare, that medicine might be higher (or lower) on private insurance. Some medicines being too expensive is a function of that industry, not insurance, per se, especially not something that would be solved by single-payer socialism
Why do you think Medicare is bad insurance? Also do you think private health insurance is a good thing?
 

steross

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#28
that can't be true. you're comparing apples to oranges

and besides, those countries do not have availability of the latest and best practices and medicines.

there are valid reasons for these differences, and we feel compelled to address them.


For one thing, even our system’s captious critics admit that it is far easier to manage health outcomes in smaller and more homogeneous countries. The U.S., with a population of 323 million, is far larger than any of the other countries mentioned in the sample. In fact, the mean population for all of them is a mere 69 million. Recent research, including an insightful book by Dr. Buz Cooper, all suggest that poverty and other social determinants have a significant impact on our health and healthcare costs. Unfortunately, the U.S. poverty rate is higher than the other countries at 12.7 percent of the population.

In an accompanying JAMA article also published in March 2018, Ezekiel J. Emanuel, MD, observes that “administrative costs contribute significantly to the cost difference between the U.S. and others used in the comparison.” This is a point on which Papanicolas et al resoundingly agree. Emanuel also mentions that a major driver of cost differences is high-margin, high volume procedures. For example, he points to knee replacements where the U.S. performs nearly twice as many per capita as in the Netherlands.

Tim had a knee replacement himself in May and enjoys far greater mobility. He also has a tennis friend in Connecticut who in the past year had both knees replaced and is back to playing tennis three times a week. His age: 90! We suspect that it would be very difficult, if not impossible, for a 90-year-old to receive two knee replacements in any of the other countries and in a very timely fashion. However, much of America prides itself on physical fitness and quality of life at every age. The price of this is certainly reflected in our higher healthcare costs.

Papanicolas et al also call attention to the fact that the U.S. performed the second highest number of MRI scans per capita (behind Japan) and the most CT scans. We don’t find that unusual,

https://www.forbes.com/sites/physic...-other-countries-are-misleading/#2d3c60181232
I've spent the past 8 years as the director of the emergency department of a regional trauma center in one of those countries. Are you really going to claim to tell me what practices they have access to?

Why don't I tell you what living is Southern California is like. I'm sure I read about it somewhere....
 

CocoCincinnati

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#29
Why do you think Medicare is bad insurance? Also do you think private health insurance is a good thing?
For starters it doesn't cover everything. People pay into the system for 45 years and then have to buy supplemental insurance on top of Medicare.

I think private insurance could be great but it doesn't exist right now. The federal government has almost total control of the industry.
 
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#30
For starters it doesn't cover everything. People pay into the system for 45 years and then have to buy supplemental insurance on top of Medicare.

I think private insurance could be great but it doesn't exist right now. The federal government has almost total control of the industry.
I’m not going to pretend that Medicare is perfect but can you imagine a system without it and only private insurance as it existed before the ACA.
 

CocoCincinnati

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#31
I’m not going to pretend that Medicare is perfect but can you imagine a system without it and only private insurance as it existed before the ACA.
Before or after the ACA makes no difference. The system was and still is broken. I won't pretend we didn't and still don't need serious reform.
However, yes I can imagine a free market system without Medicare.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

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#32
I've spent the past 8 years as the director of the emergency department of a regional trauma center in one of those countries. Are you really going to claim to tell me what practices they have access to?

Why don't I tell you what living is Southern California is like. I'm sure I read about it somewhere....
changing the subject huh.... I said it cannot be true.... and you DID NOT address it - you simply puffed up your chest and bellowed out something unrelated.

you said: The joke is already on us as far as prices.
We pay more for public healthcare than most countries that actually give it to all of their citizens.


I posted information contradicting that statement (or at least deflating it)... you offered nothing, as usual.

a discussion is supposed to be give and take... back and forth... not you claiming moral authority and proclaiming that everybody else is incompetent.

why do you both to post on this board is that is you approach every single time?
 

CaliforniaCowboy

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#33
I’m not going to pretend that Medicare is perfect but can you imagine a system without it and only private insurance as it existed before the ACA.
I would prefer to imagine that .... and no, I can't imagine it.... it sound totally wonderful though.

The "insurance before ACA" is a silly statement, since everybody agreed that changes were needed to make it more affordable. So, lets go with no medicare (or vouchers) and good affordable free market insurance.

Imagine good affordable insurance, without government interference... it would be wonderful.

Imagine the insurance companies running businesses, instead of the freaking Federal Government running a fraud filled inept business.

The federal government has no business running any business of any kind.
 
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#34
I would prefer to imagine that .... and no, I can't imagine it.... it sound totally wonderful though.

The "insurance before ACA" is a silly statement, since everybody agreed that changes were needed to make it more affordable. So, lets go with no medicare (or vouchers) and good affordable free market insurance.

Imagine good affordable insurance, without government interference... it would be wonderful.

Imagine the insurance companies running businesses, instead of the freaking Federal Government running a fraud filled inept business.

The federal government has no business running any business of any kind.
Do they or state governments have a role in regulating rates?

What happens when tens of millions chose not to have insurance?

Also from a previous question. Do you like private insurance?
 

CaliforniaCowboy

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#35
Do they or state governments have a role in regulating rates?

What happens when tens of millions chose not to have insurance?

Also from a previous question. Do you like private insurance?
they who? The market regulates rates.... supply and demand.

If people don't want insurance, then they shouldn't have to have insurance. Supply and demand.

Do I like private insurance? I don't even know how to answer that. I have a choice of different plans and options (PPO, HMO, etc.) I get to choose what works best for my situations. Supply and demand.
 
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#36
they who? The market regulates rates.... supply and demand.

If people don't want insurance, then they shouldn't have to have insurance. Supply and demand.

Do I like private insurance? I don't even know how to answer that. I have a choice of different plans and options (PPO, HMO, etc.) I get to choose what works best for my situations. Supply and demand.
They = Feds.

Are you for a complete deregulation of utilities where supply and demand and corporate profits determine what you pay and utilities can send “product” to highest paying cities/neighborhoods?

Are you for uninsured motorists and transportation companies dropping insurance?
 
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#37
T

Are you for a complete deregulation of utilities where supply and demand and corporate profits determine what you pay and utilities can send “product” to highest paying cities/neighborhoods?
We already have this in Texas. I can buy electricity from probably 80 different companies. I shop around to find the best rate for my situation.

I'm curious what you think we did prior to Medicare? Most people I know paid out of pocket and had what was called a Major Medical insurance plan that paid for the big stuff such as surgeries and hospital stays. Total healthcare costs as a percentage of income was much less than we pay today. Of course, that was before the government got into the healthcare business.
 

steross

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#38
changing the subject huh.... I said it cannot be true.... and you DID NOT address it - you simply puffed up your chest and bellowed out something unrelated.

you said: The joke is already on us as far as prices.
We pay more for public healthcare than most countries that actually give it to all of their citizens.


I posted information contradicting that statement (or at least deflating it)... you offered nothing, as usual.

a discussion is supposed to be give and take... back and forth... not you claiming moral authority and proclaiming that everybody else is incompetent.

why do you both to post on this board is that is you approach every single time?
You are right, discussion is supposed to be a give and take. No discussion with you has ever been a give and take. You just think you are all knowing and give. I have never ever seen you give a point to anyone. Even when it is so obvious you are wrong that people are laughing at you.

I've posted multiple times in the past exactly why it is true. I'm not repeating for you because you would argue with anything I say in some insane manner anyway now that you decided to disagree. If someone that actually wants to learn and not just act like he knows everything wants to know, I'll repeat myself. For you, not a chance.
 
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#39
We already have this in Texas. I can buy electricity from probably 80 different companies. I shop around to find the best rate for my situation.

I'm curious what you think we did prior to Medicare? Most people I know paid out of pocket and had what was called a Major Medical insurance plan that paid for the big stuff such as surgeries and hospital stays. Total healthcare costs as a percentage of income was much less than we pay today. Of course, that was before the government got into the healthcare business.
Is all of Texas electricity deregulated? What about other utilities?

Are you saying that the government is 100% responsible for the increase in healthcare costs?
 

NTXPoke

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#40
Is all of Texas electricity deregulated? What about other utilities?

I don't think gas is deregulated, but electricity is except if you have a municipal electric company--then you are tied to them. It is like when the phone companies deregulated and you chose a local carrier and a long distance carrier.

Are you saying that the government is 100% responsible for the increase in healthcare costs?