Health Care and Insurance Industries Mobilize to Kill ‘Medicare for All’

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StillwaterTownie

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#1
LOL, The lobbyists also want to keep ObamaCare, something that conservatives still quite dearly want abolished. I bet the lobbyists like the government's new Medicare Advantage, which invites health insurance companies to provide Medicare approved plans. So don't be surprised, if lobbyists end up wanting Medicare Advantage For All.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/23/...5XpoIdamEc1ang_tm0fV0SbH5FmCOJN8IASRo76Sbpp1g
 

CocoCincinnati

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#2
Idiots should have known that the ACA was just the first step to single payer but all they saw were the dollar signs of people being forced by the government to buy their product....I'm glad they are fighting complete government take over of health care now but I can't feel bad for them for getting in bed with the government in the first place.
 

StillwaterTownie

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#3
I doubt government will ever totally take over health care like the VA in which the government owns and runs everything.

Really, there is nothing much wrong with Medicare For All, unless you believe that health care through bankruptcy is a better deal for our country. But the healthy would still be forced to subsidize the sick and poor through higher medical costs.
 
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#4
I doubt government will ever totally take over health care like the VA in which the government owns and runs everything.

Really, there is nothing much wrong with Medicare For All, unless you believe that health care through bankruptcy is a better deal for our country. But the healthy would still be forced to subsidize the sick and poor through higher medical costs.
If Medicare is so good, why do you have to buy private insurance in addition to Medicare in ordered to be fully covered? Same can be said about European countries. If you actually want to see a doctor, you have to buy private insurance.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

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#6
I doubt government will ever totally take over health care like the VA in which the government owns and runs everything.

Really, there is nothing much wrong with Medicare For All, unless you believe that health care through bankruptcy is a better deal for our country. But the healthy would still be forced to subsidize the sick and poor through higher medical costs.
the government needs to get out of the VA business and give the vets real insurance coverage, AND, medicare for all is bad for me (which is all that should matter).

medicare is bad, bad, bad insurance and I don't want it... no thanks. why should I be forced to accept a bad product?

Here - educate yourself - this is from the freanking WaPo

The answer they came up with will surprise even critics of Warren et al.: The fraction of bankruptcies caused by medical events is just 4 percent. And even among those bankruptcies, it seems that medical bills may be less of a problem than the other things associated with an illness, such as lost labor income.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...-medical-bankruptcies/?utm_term=.4397d8b6e5fe
 

StillwaterTownie

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#7
the government needs to get out of the VA business and give the vets real insurance coverage, AND, medicare for all is bad for me (which is all that should matter).

medicare is bad, bad, bad insurance and I don't want it... no thanks. why should I be forced to accept a bad product?

Here - educate yourself - this is from the freanking WaPo

The answer they came up with will surprise even critics of Warren et al.: The fraction of bankruptcies caused by medical events is just 4 percent. And even among those bankruptcies, it seems that medical bills may be less of a problem than the other things associated with an illness, such as lost labor income.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...-medical-bankruptcies/?utm_term=.4397d8b6e5fe
Who knows how much higher medical bankruptcies would be if hardly any employer paid for part of employees health insurance.

So I gather you have been so well blessed as to stay in excellent health all the time that buying health insurance is a foolish waste of money for you.
 
Dec 9, 2013
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#9
the government needs to get out of the VA business and give the vets real insurance coverage, AND, medicare for all is bad for me (which is all that should matter).

medicare is bad, bad, bad insurance and I don't want it... no thanks. why should I be forced to accept a bad product?

Here - educate yourself - this is from the freanking WaPo

The answer they came up with will surprise even critics of Warren et al.: The fraction of bankruptcies caused by medical events is just 4 percent. And even among those bankruptcies, it seems that medical bills may be less of a problem than the other things associated with an illness, such as lost labor income.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...-medical-bankruptcies/?utm_term=.4397d8b6e5fe
I’ll be the 1st to say our vets deserve the absolute best healthcare & I don’t think you are meaning to turn them over to Humana or BCBS or the like so what is the answer for not just them but everyone? Because if you do that and ACA is repealed by legislation or courts how do you get a vet around pre existing condition? Is it as simple as private insurance, subsidized by the government with a pre existing condition waiver?

I get not expanding government but we’ve got death panels in private insurance. Healthcare decisions are being made by non specialists, by people whose bonus depends on their own decisions.

Every family, every neighbor has a story. My dad loves the VA treatment he gets. Has no problems with wait times. But I know that’s not the case with all vets. I’ve got a family member who is thankful for Medicare and is seeing two of the best dr’s they’ve ever seen.

I’ve got a family friend that our extended family helps out with food every month because the wife requires medical equipment & prescriptions that exhausts their money. They are on Medicare so it does have limitations.

The system is broken and in desperate need of new ideas. Not from politicians or think tanks or insurance CEO’s.
 

pokes16

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#10
Medicare for all:

The compassion of the IRS
The efficiency of the Post Office
The accuracy of the National Weather Service
All at the Department of Defense prices.
 

StillwaterTownie

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#11
Medicare for all:

The compassion of the IRS
The efficiency of the Post Office
The accuracy of the National Weather Service
All at the Department of Defense prices.
Then what do you want, instead? Health insurance companies can't make money off of people likely to get sick and certainly not from people with costly chronic illnesses, unless the government subsidizes them. If our own country's health care system is so great and highly desirable, then why aren't people in other advanced countries advocating adopting the American system to improve their health care? They don't want to pay much higher drug prices for one thing.

A major problem is who gives a damn about issues associated with health care if you have been blessed to be in great health all your life and so can't possibly relate to people who can't say the same? As long as politicians are elected, who are in excellent health, our nation's health care problems will never get solved. Maybe it would help to elect somebody in a wheelchair, or who has a serious chronic illness, such as diabetes.
 

pokes16

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#12
Then what do you want, instead? Health insurance companies can't make money off of people likely to get sick and certainly not from people with costly chronic illnesses, unless the government subsidizes them. If our own country's health care system is so great and highly desirable, then why aren't people in other advanced countries advocating adopting the American system to improve their health care? They don't want to pay much higher drug prices for one thing.

A major problem is who gives a damn about issues associated with health care if you have been blessed to be in great health all your life and so can't possibly relate to people who can't say the same? As long as politicians are elected, who are in excellent health, our nation's health care problems will never get solved. Maybe it would help to elect somebody in a wheelchair, or who has a serious chronic illness, such as diabetes.
Townie. If others "don't want our health care", then please explain to me why the Mayo Clinic literally has suites built for foreigners who come here specifically for our health care. Please do not lecture me on the healthcare system. I have personally experienced more of it at the highest levels than I am guessing you will ever experience. At that is from the aspect of the consumer. Want to reduce the cost? Limit the lawyers. A person I know has ties to Amgen the big pharma company. To paraphrase that person, Amgen is now a law firm with a few scientists doing bits of research in the basement. Quit allowing illegals into the country who go to the ER for a cold. Allow insurance companies to sell policies across state lines. And quit forcing insurace companies to cover every made up liberal issue that comes out.

Years ago when ACA came out, I talked to my agent. Since I am also licensed we discussed ACA. We both knew it would fail based on simple math. We chose to grandfather what I already have to keep from entering Obozocare. One of the best decisions I have ever made.

And to be clear, despite whatever political differences we have, I sincerely pray you never have to experience the health care system as my family and I have.
 

steross

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#13
Medicare for all:

The compassion of the IRS
The efficiency of the Post Office
The accuracy of the National Weather Service
All at the Department of Defense prices.
The joke is already on us as far as prices.
We pay more for public healthcare than most countries that actually give it to all of their citizens.
 

CocoCincinnati

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#14
then why aren't people in other advanced countries advocating adopting the American system to improve their health care?
I realize the media you read and watch makes it seem this way but there are tons of stories of people in countries with universal health care that complain about their system. The long waits and rationing are major issues in these countries. And they will happen here if we go single payer, but more importantly is the cost. We can't even afford to cover the people who are on medicare right now (and even then it doesn't cover everything).....how does anyone on the left think we can afford to cover every single person in the country. It stretches the limits of imagination to think we can cover those costs, and free college tuition to boot, while simultaneously chasing the rich out of the country. It's fiscally impossible.

NOBODY is saying our health care system isn't broken (but you already know that). Most of the problems with our current system (the so called bankruptcy health care line you repeat over and over) can be attributed to government intervention. Heck just look how much costs have gone up since the ACA, which was supposed to do the opposite. Our system is so fubar right now that single payer may soon be the only alternative left to us but until that is a certainty, a free market system, which none of us have seen in our lifetimes, is the absolute best solution for everybody, including the poor. I know you don't believe that but that's only because you don't really know what the free market is.
 

steross

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I realize the media you read and watch makes it seem this way but there are tons of stories of people in countries with universal health care that complain about their system. The long waits and rationing are major issues in these countries. And they will happen here if we go single payer, but more importantly is the cost. We can't even afford to cover the people who are on medicare right now (and even then it doesn't cover everything).....how does anyone on the left think we can afford to cover every single person in the country. It stretches the limits of imagination to think we can cover those costs, and free college tuition to boot, while simultaneously chasing the rich out of the country. It's fiscally impossible.

NOBODY is saying our health care system isn't broken (but you already know that). Most of the problems with our current system (the so called bankruptcy health care line you repeat over and over) can be attributed to government intervention. Heck just look how much costs have gone up since the ACA, which was supposed to do the opposite. Our system is so fubar right now that single payer may soon be the only alternative left to us but until that is a certainty, a free market system, which none of us have seen in our lifetimes, is the absolute best solution for everybody, including the poor. I know you don't believe that but that's only because you don't really know what the free market is.
Again, we spend more of our GDP on public health care than countries that actually cover the public. The health care industry/insurance industry is purposefully inefficient and non-transparent and takes in massive amounts of money for useless administration. It is a classic example of business NOT being an efficient and customer-friendly way to provide a service if the incentives do not match because the actual payer is not the consumer.

It is illogical to think that because we currently pay far too much to provide health care in a horrible system designed to extract as much money as possible that we would spend in the same manner if we changed to a different system.

A true free market system could be the best in an ideal world. But, I am a pragmatist and know there is no way to get there. Despite all the fear tactics about long waits for people in other countries, I can tell you from firsthand experience that people overseas do not fear their wait, which are overblown in the US media. They fear any move toward a system like the US.

In my mind a free market is ideal but not gonna happen. A universal system is proven elsewhere and in some countries works well. What we are doing now is unsustainable and must go away.
 
Jul 22, 2011
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#16
They fear any move toward a system like the US.
They fear our system, but they have no problem using the drugs and procedures our system produces.
Much like the military protection they enjoy, these socialist utopians bitch about the color of the umbrella we hold over their heads.
 

steross

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They fear our system, but they have no problem using the drugs and procedures our system produces.
Much like the military protection they enjoy, these socialist utopians bitch about the color of the umbrella we hold over their heads.
Completely different than the military.

And we have no problem using the drugs they produce either.

A very complex topic, but to claim that the US produces and pays for the drugs and the other countries just suck them up and use them is disingenous at best. The US produces about what it should given its size, the UK and Switzerland outproduce based on size. Others underproduce. That is how economics works. And, the primary benefit the US has is our powerful research universities and biotech companies, which are not going away if we develop a sane health care system.
 
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Jul 22, 2011
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Completely different than the military.

And we have no problem using the drugs they produce either.

A very complex topic, but to claim that the US produces and pays for the drugs and the other countries just suck them up and use them is disingenous at best. The US produces about what it should given its size, the UK and Switzerland outproduce based on size. Others underproduce. That is how economics works. And, the primary benefit the US has is our powerful research universities and biotech companies, which are not going away if we develop a sane health care system.
Medicare-For-All makes the Swiss system look like something devised by Ayn Rand. That's not a great comparison.
 

steross

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Medicare-For-All makes the Swiss system look like something devised by Ayn Rand. That's not a great comparison.
And the UK?

And, where did my post mention Medicare for all? Strawman much.

To make our system function even as efficiently as the Swiss (which is still a high cost system) would be a remarkable achievement.

The not great comparison was your comparison to the military.