George Floyd

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Feb 7, 2007
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Your statements are fundamentally true but lost in the babble (as you describe it) is the fact that since 1964 when the "Great Society" started paying women to have children while prohibiting men to live with them outside marriage, the black family unit was effectively destroyed. Since people inherently vote their pocketbooks, black America has voted predominately democrat for 56 years. Please tell us how much the dem party has done for blacks in America in the last 50 yrs. Biden was 28 yrs old when he came to office and is now 77. Nearly 50 years as a "public servant" and is still regurgitating the dem line with not a single accomplishment regarding race. Single mothers are among the greatest demographic in poverty and the dems created a dependency in that group that fuels the black inner city condition to today. You're too young to remember a time when there weren't ghettos and masses of black people living in government subsidized "projects" keeping them virtually sequestered to themselves. All that's been accomplished by the magnanimous dem benefactors is clearly on display.
I think it is also important to remember in the 60's you could be a mechanic and afford to own your own house with a stay at home wife to raise your kids.

Now, most of the people I know are couples where both work and both have degrees. Things are just way more expensive now. That hurts the lower class way more than other groups. The idea of living a normal life on minimum wage is not really an option.

Now do I think it is the governments job to fix all that? Not really, I am good with raising minimum wage for sure though.

Having the police beat you up, harass you, and in some instances kill your neighbors without repercussions is just the final straw. In this case there will be justice hopefully but it seems to take video evidence and public outcry to get that to happen if you are not wealthy.

I would be willing to bet the majority of the protesters are not overly political. They probably lean left because they are seen as more diverse but my guess is they dislike all of the above.
 

StillwaterTownie

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IF there was a systemic problem with police violence against a particular race (black) then saying Black Lives Matter would make sense and not be exclusionary. However, most every independent view on police shootings show that police targeting minorities for violence is a myth. By only saying Black Lives Matter for an extremely small number of instances, you ignore:
* blacks killed during looting and protests (small number)
* blacks killed in inner city (happens about 280x more often than blacks killed by police)
* other races killed by police (happens about 4x more than black killed by police)


https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-my...83?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/523pncIoMq

https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2019/the-truth-behind-racial-disparities-in-fatal-police-shootings/

Being inclusive is supposed to be a virtue —- however, people have bought so much into a lie and a distortion of facts that they are okay spreading a false narrative. Although I do think a majority are just not educated on truth and data and just regurgitate what they hear in the media. Therefore they think they are being righteous saying black lives matter and shouting down the more inclusive all lives matter.

Anyone that doesnt understand this is just ignorant on facts, or has been thoroughly brainwashes, or is using the false narrative for political leverage.
It still doesn't take from the fact that police should reform their policies so they aren't killing unarmed citizens. White people and everybody else protesting over Floyd's death probably wonder if they could have been Floyd.
 
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Feb 7, 2007
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By percentage there are more Native Americans in poverty than any other group. In pure numbers there are far more white people living in poverty. Hispanic's are almost at the same level percentage wise as black people but have far more numbers wise. Your argument for poverty really doesn't hold weight. The crime rates are much higher in the inner cities and require a greater police presence and more police interaction with people in those areas to protect the law abiding citizens. The result is a group feeling harassed. I can't say I blame them for feeling that way.

Now you have to find the cause of the phenomena that is causing the through the roof violent crime rates in these areas. They far exceed the violent crime rates in other impoverished communities. Then the problem can be addressed.

Is it cause and effect? Over policing discovers more crime and artificially creates these statistics? Is it something else. Maybe the people in these area's feel hopelessly trapped by a system that was designed to trap them there and are lashing out.
Think a lot if it is community. Natives have lots of issues too but it is less violent like you said. Ole Charles Barkley's quote about that culture comes to mind.

This isn't a new issue for sure. It is getting worse because cities are getting way more expensive so life is getting harder. Poor whites and poor natives seem to live in areas that have not priced them out as much.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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It still doesn't take from the fact that police should reform their policies so they aren't killing unarmed citizens. White people protesting over Floyd's death probably wonder if they could have been Floyd.
Agree. That was my point... so my fault for not being clear.
 
Feb 7, 2007
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Here are some police officers destroying a medical care station that was sanctioned by the city.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gvxarx/asheville_pd_destroy_medic_station_for_protestors/
 
Nov 6, 2010
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By percentage there are more Native Americans in poverty than any other group. In pure numbers there are far more white people living in poverty. Hispanic's are almost at the same level percentage wise as black people but have far more numbers wise. Your argument for poverty really doesn't hold weight. The crime rates are much higher in the inner cities and require a greater police presence and more police interaction with people in those areas to protect the law abiding citizens. The result is a group feeling harassed. I can't say I blame them for feeling that way.

Now you have to find the cause of the phenomena that is causing the through the roof violent crime rates in these areas. They far exceed the violent crime rates in other impoverished communities. Then the problem can be addressed.

Is it cause and effect? Over policing discovers more crime and artificially creates these statistics? Is it something else. Maybe the people in these area's feel hopelessly trapped by a system that was designed to trap them there and are lashing out.
Good thoughts, I appreciate the dialogue. There are clearly other factors involved than just poverty, but my point on police brutality in particular is that the bad apples in that profession are always going to pick whoever they perceive as weak/poor, and thus less likely to bring repercussions. I have no doubt that your average trailer park, mullet having, meth cooking white kid will get the exact same treatment from that bully cop (1-2% of the profession) that George Floyd got. Native Americans are provided some level of protection by having their own semi-autonomous government and law enforcement, particularly in their most impoverished areas, so probably not the best metric to compare against. And clearly, population density will have a bearing on crimes committed, or at least crimes reported.
 

StillwaterTownie

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Obama had a unique chance to bring hope to black America but instead chose to blame whitey for their plight. Utter failure. The time to quit blaming others is now. After these protests, rioting, and virtue signaling is over, their problems will still be there. Stay in school, get a job, don’t commit crimes, don’t knock up your girlfriend, go to trade school or community college if you desire, etc. Be the person to stop the cycle in your family! It’s possible! There are many paths to success in this country but you have to do it yourself. Where are the black leaders that are providing hope instead of blame?
Obama's actions, failures and divisiveness didn't lead to his failure to get reelected. Soon we'll see if Trump's divisiveness gets him reelected. If the police would just quit causing the deaths of unarmed people, one of the problems will no longer be there.
 

Deere Poke

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Good thoughts, I appreciate the dialogue. There are clearly other factors involved than just poverty, but my point on police brutality in particular is that the bad apples in that profession are always going to pick whoever they perceive as weak/poor, and thus less likely to bring repercussions. I have no doubt that your average trailer park, mullet having, meth cooking white kid will get the exact same treatment from that bully cop (1-2% of the profession) that George Floyd got. Native Americans are provided some level of protection by having their own semi-autonomous government and law enforcement, particularly in their most impoverished areas, so probably not the best metric to compare against. And clearly, population density will have a bearing on crimes committed, or at least crimes reported.
Counting the body bags the guys in the inner city are hands down doing the most violent crime.
 

Deere Poke

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Obama's actions, failures and divisiveness didn't lead to his failure to get reelected. Soon we'll see if Trump's divisiveness gets him reelected. If the police would just quit causing the deaths of unarmed people, one of the problems will no longer be there.
How many riots did we have under Obama where the cops shot unarmed people. I seriously lost count was it more or less than one a year? I know a few years he was in office we had more than one because of it.
 

Deere Poke

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I agree with you 100% that our previous efforts to level the field through welfare have perpetuated and even exacerbated the problem. The how is difficult, and I don't know the answer, I'm not smart enough. I just know that when people have a fat bank account, they are significantly less likely to loot, rob, etc, regardless of race.
If they had been efforts to level the field that would have been one thing. They weren't they were efforts by a bunch of old racist politicians to sweep an element of society away they didn't want to deal with. Now you get what we got here today.
 

Rack

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I don't want to speak for him, but I think he was more implying that because the profession bans marriage, it is less likely to attract your average heterosexual male than if that were not the case. I really think it would do the Catholic church a lot of good if they dropped that rule. I don't understand why honestly, heck, many of the early Popes were married.
celibacy is hard...that's why only God could do it. He did say that he would prefer that we control ourselves but that if we couldn't we should marry. It's a form of martyrdom to be celibate and if someone can do that and tune it out completely then fine...problem most of us couldn't, and won't, or don't...and that's why Christ said it's good / ok to marry.
 

jetman

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Nov 27, 2004
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Here are some police officers destroying a medical care station that was sanctioned by the city.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/gvxarx/asheville_pd_destroy_medic_station_for_protestors/
WTF? Let me guess. Someone in the crowd tossed a water bottle so they are going to destroy all water bottles. Not a good look at all.
 
Feb 15, 2007
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If you're going to riot and loot, St. Louis is a pretty good place to be. Eric Schmitt is the Missouri Attorney General.

 
Apr 14, 2009
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You know nothing about me. So you need to back up a bit talking about my level of education.
And my guess is your not on the top 150 list.
 

wrenhal

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5) Don’t make unifying messages negative. “All Lives Matter” is a unifying message

I know a lot of white people think it is, and they really don't mean any harm when they use that message. However, it most definitely is not a unifying message. It is a belittling message. It is a counter phrase towards "Black Lives Matter".

It goes without saying "all lives matter". The point of the protest is that some in our society don't seem to think that black lives matter or they wouldn't be so ho hum about police brutality toward black people. Agree with that sentiment or not, that is how they feel. So why exactly does that need a counter argument of "all lives matter"? It doesn't.
Even Calvin Miller at today's rally in Stillwater mentioned that everyone is made in the image of God and matters. He had a great message. A message of unity and coming together to heal.
But then some female pastor from out of town started talking. She brought up that whites need to open their wallets, and not just a pittance of an offering to make you feel better, but real money. On top of that she wanted reparations as well AND even talked about giving land back to the Indians. She was an extremist. And just because she was black they clapped and clapped.

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Apr 12, 2020
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Okay... there’s a lot of parts of this conversation which are tough to weigh in on because the reality is nobody here will actually consider and be convinced of any post... but this particular line of responses is too ridiculous not to clarify.

The original point the poster was making when he mentioned the Catholic Church is that it’s one of the many examples in history of people seeking positions of power to protect themselves and give themselves greater ability to do evil.

The larger problem is not finding good recruits for institutions, inevitably bad eggs will find their ways in. It’s about institutions having the ability to reflect on the dark side of the power members of any institution have and the will to root out the evil that can be done. I think those are rules that everyone should want institutions to strive to have.


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cowboyinexile

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I've seen the organization. Especially on Reddit. These people are large in numbers and use social media as a sort of distributed network to disseminate information quickly. They don't just go around looking for "fascist" groups to intimidate. They go looking to create anarchy. No one had been able to show one instance of actual white supremacist groups, while Antifa has readily admitted they are there. As well as gang bangers that have been arrested in L.A. and NYC.
Don't you realize that if there was even a single arrest of a known white supremacist, it would be all over the news? They are hailing in 100's a night right now in those 2 cities.

I would be labeled a "fascist" by Antifa because I'm white, Christian, and believe in the 2A. That's how lose they get with their definitions so they can choose people to "protest".

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So basically they are as organized as 4Chan...


Also there is this

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnew...onalist-group-posing-antifa/story?id=71024345

So maybe we shouldn't believe everything we read on the internet.