Fort Worth School District starts recruiting Oklahoma Teachers

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Binman4OSU

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Aug 31, 2007
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#1
The Fort Worth School district has bought and put up 10 billboards in Oklahoma City, Norman, Tulsa, and Stillwater recruiting Oklahoma teachers to their district

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oks10

Territorial Marshal
Sep 9, 2007
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#3
All the "but average teacher pay" really has no water when you see other states with STARTING pay this high. Not average including administration. Starting. STARTING pay, even with the increase that was signed in, is STILL in the 30s here.
 

oks10

Territorial Marshal
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#5
and no state income tax
I can't even imagine how nice our household income would be if my wife made that kind of money without taxes... Right now she literally makes just enough to cover our mortgage and daycare, save a hundred bucks or so. We still have 2 separate accounts (just because I don't want to deal with the hassle of closing one and re-setting up all of our autodrafts) and nearly every dollar that goes into her account from her paycheck is used by those two items. Everything else (auto loans, cell phones, internet, food, utilities, insurance, etc) is payed from my account.
 

oks10

Territorial Marshal
Sep 9, 2007
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#7
Perfect. Let the free market decide. If OK can't hire enough teachers then they will have to raise the salary. If they CAN, then they won't. You know, kinda like EVERY OTHER PROFESSION.
Oklahoma ALREADY CAN'T hire enough teachers... There were nearly 2000 emergency certifications issued this year the last I looked and that's still leaving classrooms busting at the seams due to teacher shortages... It's not like "every other profession" because it's not customer funded. It's taxpayer funded. The districts can't just pull money out of thin air to create a competitive salary... That was kind of the whole reason for the 2 wk walkout we JUST had.
 

ScooberJake

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#8
Perfect. Let the free market decide. If OK can't hire enough teachers then they will have to raise the salary. If they CAN, then they won't. You know, kinda like EVERY OTHER PROFESSION.
True, but I don't think it's always that I clear. I know that one of the events that led to the teacher walk out was when the Bartlesville superintendent went to the school board and told them he had to hire a bunch of unqualified teachers just to keep the schools running.

So the free market says "hey, they found people willing to do the job for the offered salary, there is no problem." But the public school system doesn't experience typical free market forces. If most businesses hire unqualified people at low wages, their product or service will suffer, customers will choose to buy from a competitor, and the business will close. In this case, there is no competitor.
 
Feb 13, 2010
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#9
True, but I don't think it's always that I clear. I know that one of the events that led to the teacher walk out was when the Bartlesville superintendent went to the school board and told them he had to hire a bunch of unqualified teachers just to keep the schools running.

So the free market says "hey, they found people willing to do the job for the offered salary, there is no problem." But the public school system doesn't experience typical free market forces. If most businesses hire unqualified people at low wages, their product or service will suffer, customers will choose to buy from a competitor, and the business will close. In this case, there is no competitor.
So a legitimate I don't know the answer to it question. What are the requirements for these "emergency certifications"?
Edit - just looked it up. I guess I don't see the huge issue with these "emergency certifications". The person placed in the classroom is required to have a degree, just not a teaching degree. What's the issue here? It does not sound like they are unqualified. Actually I'd rather have someone with a math degree teaching my kids math than someone with a teaching degree. The two best teachers my kids ever had were ones that had retired from industry and started teaching. They did not have an education degree.
 

Binman4OSU

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#10
So a legitimate I don't know the answer to it question. What are the requirements for these "emergency certifications"?
Edit - just looked it up. I guess I don't see the huge issue with these "emergency certifications". The person placed in the classroom is required to have a degree, just not a teaching degree. What's the issue here? It does not sound like they are unqualified. Actually I'd rather have someone with a math degree teaching my kids math than someone with a teaching degree. The two best teachers my kids ever had were ones that had retired from industry and started teaching. They did not have an education degree.
The school Super must request the emergency certificate on District letterhead explaining why it was made, and names of the people they want to issue the certs too and sign it and submit to the state. The district must show that the job opening was posted in at least two of the following, local paper, local college, or on district website

The person applying for the emergency cert to fill the position must pay a $50 processing fee, fill out an application, send an updated resume, official school transcripts, and either a passing of a state issued subject matter test of what they will teach, or prove they are registered to take the next available subject matter test. The applicant must pass an OSBI and FBI fingerprint screening.
 

StillwaterTownie

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Jun 18, 2010
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Where else but Stillwater
#11
I think Coburn's petition for a vote to nix tax hikes for higher teacher pay will win out in November. Who wants to pay 3 cents more gas tax? Oil companies sure as hell don't want to pay higher GPT and will hire signature takers, if viewed necessary. Oil companies and other promoters will tell you the upsurge in state tax revenues will be enough to cover higher teacher pay. No tax hikes needed. After all, sooner or later trickle down economics has to work or the tide that lifts all ships will come in. Voters won't care if other parts of state government need more money, such as prisons. So those billboards and other means of teacher recruiting from Texas won't go away.
 
Feb 13, 2010
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#12
I think Coburn's petition for a vote to nix tax hikes for higher teacher pay will win out in November. Who wants to pay 3 cents more gas tax? Oil companies sure as hell don't want to pay higher GPT and will hire signature takers, if viewed necessary. Oil companies and other promoters will tell you the upsurge in state tax revenues will be enough to cover higher teacher pay. No tax hikes needed. After all, sooner or later trickle down economics has to work or the tide that lifts all ships will come in. Voters won't care if other parts of state government need more money, such as prisons. So those billboards and other means of teacher recruiting from Texas won't go away.
See, oil companies once again creating jobs!!!
 

ScooberJake

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#13
So a legitimate I don't know the answer to it question. What are the requirements for these "emergency certifications"?
Edit - just looked it up. I guess I don't see the huge issue with these "emergency certifications". The person placed in the classroom is required to have a degree, just not a teaching degree. What's the issue here? It does not sound like they are unqualified. Actually I'd rather have someone with a math degree teaching my kids math than someone with a teaching degree. The two best teachers my kids ever had were ones that had retired from industry and started teaching. They did not have an education degree.
I don't know much about those emergency certifications either. Does the new teacher need to have a degree in the subject they will be teaching? Or just any degree? You very well may end up with someone in a high school classroom learning a subject as they teach it (trigonometry, chemistry, economics, etc). Beyond that, I know people with math degrees that would make terrible math teachers.

Also, I would bet that 80% of what you need to know to be a good teacher has to do with general practice of education (classroom management, child psychology, learning theory) and probably 20% has to do with your knowledge of the subject matter.
 

Rack

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#14
and no state income tax
But HUGE property taxes and fast accelerating home prices. Trust me, as a former Dallas resident...it's FAR cheaper to live in Oklahoma (Tulsa) than in Texas cities. I can't overstate what's happening in DFW regarding home prices and competition for existing real estate...
 
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Rack

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#15
Cost of Living Comparison:

Tulsa, Oklahoma - Fort Worth, Texas

A salary of $50,000 in Tulsa, Oklahoma should increase to $56,250 in Fort Worth, Texas
Cost of Living Indexes

Tulsa / Fort Worth

Overall 84.8 / 95.4
Food 89.9 / 95.1
Housing 57.4 / 83.6
Utilities 95.5 / 110.3
Transportation 100.1 / 91.9
Health 96.6 / 120.9
Miscellaneous 101.6 / 102.6

The only item where Tulsa is more expensive than Ft. Worth is Transportation...
 
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Sep 22, 2009
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Bixby
#16
Not that it's a huge deal, but Texas teachers and many other state's teachers have to pay into their own pension fund and they don't receive SS in retirement. OK pays 100% of Oklahoma's teacher pension and OK teachers will get SS on top of their pension when eligible. Additionally, Texas pays 0% of their teachers insurance whereas (I believe this is about accurate), OK covers some of the teacher's basic insurance costs for themselves, but not their families. But yes, the no state income tax thing is HUGE. That is how OK should have addressed this issue; make classroom teacher pay exempt from state income tax; boom, done, don't have to raise taxes on the teachers you just gave a raise to and don't have to scurry every year to find funding that's been peessed away in some other department.
The whole strike, walkout, lockout, whatever wasn't about teachers at all, it was Queen Mary getting her buddy who now runs the teacher's union to get the "step up" plan passed. Go back and look at the step up plan... pretty much what was passed as a front for teacher raises and all of it get's re-directed in a year or two. The teachers were used.
From the step up plan: (look familiar?)
REVENUE SCENARIOS
Download Here.
Cigarette Tax - $243.9mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 34%
Increased by $1.50 per pack
Little Cigars and Chewing Tobacco & E- Cigarettes - $12.9mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 1.8%
Tax little cigars as cigarettes and levy additional 10% tax on chewing tobacco
Oil and Gas Gross Production Tax - $133.5mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 18.6%
All wells currently at 2% will be increased to 4% and all future wells will begin at 4% for first 36 months and move to 7% after
Renewables Generation Tax - $23.0mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 3.2%
$1 per MWh
Motor Fuel Tax - $170.4mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 23.7%
Increase rate on diesel and gasoline by $0.06 per gallon
Transferable / Refundable Income Tax Credits - $0* - Percentage of Total Revenue 0.0%
Cap transferability / cash refundability for coal, wind, and railroad credits effective 2018 tax year
Gaming Modernization - $22.0mm - Percentage of Total Revenue 3.1%
Indian casinos to use balls and dice in their craps and roulette games, which will increase the state's exclusivity fees
 
Sep 22, 2009
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Bixby
#17
But HUGE property taxes and fast accelerating home prices. Trust me, as a former Dallas resident...it's FAR cheaper to live in Oklahoma (Tulsa) than in Texas cities.
Yup; lived in Valley Ranch for a while and wouldn't give a dime to live in the metroplex again. Cost of living, traffic, etc. No thanks.
 

Rack

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#18
Yup; lived in Valley Ranch for a while and wouldn't give a dime to live in the metroplex again. Cost of living, traffic, etc. No thanks.
Yep, I lived in Old East Dallas close to White Rock Lake way back when (late 1980's - late 90's). First apartment was in Valley Ranch (1987, $350 a month brand new 1 bedroom...same Apt's about $1,500 a month now) on North Macarthur Road just across from the old Dallas Cowboys training facility. :)

Can't afford my old neighborhood in Old East Dallas as homes that sold for 100K back then are now 500K plus for about 1,600 - 2,000 sf.

Ton's of family in the Metroplex including my daughter, so we may "have to" move down one day..but it's not my choice considering what's happening in the residential real estate market (California like).
 
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Binman4OSU

Legendary Cowboy
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#19
Ok lets compare this Borger Texas to Okmulgee OK

Borger salary range with bachelors degree $41,000 -$ 63,568. Plus a 3 year $2500 recruitment bonus for all new hires and a $2500 per year stipend for teaching a High School credit Math course

Population of Borger TX 13,251
Median household income $34,653
Median Family income $40,417
Per Capita Income for Borger $16,869

Median list price per sq ft for a home in Borger TX is $39/sq ft
Median home price in Borger TX is $89,900
14:1 Teacher to student ratio

Okmulgee salary range with bachelors degree $31,600 - $43,108
Population of Okmulgee 12,321
Median household income $24,344
Median Family income $31,015
Per Capita Income $13,633

Median list price per sq ft for a home in Okmulgee OK is $54/sq ft
Median home price in Okmulgee OK is $82,900
15:1 Teacher to student ratio.
 
Sep 22, 2009
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Bixby
#20
Borger TX millage is $13.4 / $1000 and Okmulgee's is $5.15 / $1000
But Borger's sales tax is (total) 8.25% and Okmulgee's is 9.75%
And again, then there's the whole income tax thing.