Former National powers . . . now, not so much

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Nov 14, 2010
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ou is an outlier...focusing on that game ONLY is never going to bring you joy.
It's brought me less joy under Gundy, under the philosophy in question.

It's also brought us an overall record of 15-9 the last 2 years and an overall downtrend trajectory with no evidence of improving.

Tylan Wallace, Chuba Hubbard and Spencer Sanders, guys that don't fit into that narrative, were all 4 star players. Without them this year we are toast.
 
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Birry

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Feb 6, 2007
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The clean program will not happen. If you want to win at the national level you will be cheating, hiring lots of defense attorneys, bringing in questionable individuals. It's going to happen. So you have to have more money
You serious.....???? Care to site some sources on which programs are cheating and how you know that?
 

Cro

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You serious.....???? Care to site some sources on which programs are cheating and how you know that?
you try to sell your conjecture and opinions as fact on here all the time, but when some else does it you get your panties in a wad?




sounds about right.............
 
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Rack

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Oct 13, 2004
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Exactly. And I actually don't have a huge problem with that approach. My main complaints are his terrible game management, and more commitment to his own bank account than bringing in top notch assistants.
How many times does it have to be proven wrong by the guys moving on to bigger jobs and such to keep you from posting and soiling the board with this tripe regarding our assistants. Glass may be the top strength coach in the nation, Dunn possibly the best WR coach, the new OL coach a top Snyder assistant, the DL coach also a top Snyder guy who knows his stuff...to assume our assistants aren't good to great coaches is a slap in the face to the program and to those coaches. Granted the new OC and the DC in his second year are of course currently under review....but considering what Gundy has brought in these past 14 years I would bet they both turn out pretty damn good. Also, Gundy lands in pay almost exactly where the program lands in wins over the last decade in comparison to the rest of college football...so it seems about right.

By far, the funniest thing about guys like Birry and Herecomesbullets is that their opinions don't exist without Gundy's success..oh the irony.
 

CTeamPoke

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Jun 18, 2008
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And I think we could pay someone WAY less to do that. We've stagnated (at an above average level), and I think it'll take a change if we have any hopes of going further. But it seems like a good number of people are pretty cool with making a bowl and finishing above 0.500 in league play, so I doubt we see any changes.

Ideally, Gundy would just make internal changes that move our program forward. But he's stuck in his ways, and he's holding us back at this point.
You realize that Scott Frost, Tom Herrman, Willie Taggart, and almost every coach getting a P5 job now gets paid around $4m or more per year, right?

Why do you care what Gundy is getting paid? In his tenure, Oklahoma State is exactly #14 in wins... which is where Gundy is paid.

To me, he's being compensated fairly.
 

CTeamPoke

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Here's a post Gundy scenario

Hire Marcus Arroyo
Then, with the money we save,
Pay Chad Morris whatever it takes to come be the offensive coordinator
Pay Todd Orlando whatever it takes to come be the defensive coordinator

Bring back JW Walsh

Then
Keep
Joe Bob
Richmond
Dunn
and
Dickey from the current staff

Then pay Brandon Weeden and Clint Chelf and Zac Robinson to be advisors to the program.
The obsession with Marcus Arroyo is hilarious. There is zero evidence that he's a good coach. Oregon has been winning with defense this year. He's signed exactly one four star player in his tenure as a coach.

Arroyo would be a major step back.

Todd Orlando is a failure in the Big 12... none of his defenses have been as good as the one Knowles put on the field this year.
 

Duke Silver

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The obsession with Marcus Arroyo is hilarious. There is zero evidence that he's a good coach. Oregon has been winning with defense this year. He's signed exactly one four star player in his tenure as a coach.

Arroyo would be a major step back.

Todd Orlando is a failure in the Big 12... none of his defenses have been as good as the one Knowles put on the field this year.
Yep. Arroyo love is a mystery to me. Oregon's offense is really not good.
 

Rack

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It's brought me less joy under Gundy, under the philosophy in question.

It's also brought us an overall record of 15-9 the last 2 years and an overall downtrend trajectory with no evidence of improving.

Tylan Wallace, Chuba Hubbard and Spencer Sanders, guys that don't fit into that narrative, were all 4 star players. Without them this year we are toast.
Dude 8 wins with a shot at 9 is better than 6 last year and 7 with the bowl...the guys you mentioned are all underclassmen and aren't necessarily done, despite certain posters wanting to make them done @ OSU. Our defense is young and improved over last year...that's NOT a downtrend trajectory, and yes it is evidence of improving. Your post would have been better had we totally flopped as you and Birry projected after Baylor, but somehow coaching held them together even after season ending injury to both Sanders and Wallace and we won 4 of 5 (granted they played in part of those games). IMHO, how we do in the bowl this year is very important to the future of the program. Does anyone know Sanders status for the bowl and Wallace's status?
 
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Rack

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Lovie Smith at Illinois makes same as Gundy and is 15-33 over his tenure...BUT he's 6-6 this year and made a bowl so I bet they feel better about it now;)...Swinney makes DOUBLE what HCMG makes...SOOO lets just stop it with the Gundy's overpaid crap folks.
 
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Nov 14, 2010
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Dude 8 wins with a shot at 9 is better than 6 last year and 7 with the bowl...the guys you mentioned are all underclassmen and aren't necessarily done, despite certain posters wanting to make them done @ OSU. Our defense is young and improved over last year...that's NOT a downtrend trajectory, and yes it is evidence of improving. Your post would have been better had we totally flopped as you and Birry projected after Baylor, but somehow coaching held them together even after season ending injury to both Sanders and Wallace and we won 4 of 5 (granted they played in part of those games). IMHO, how we do in the bowl this year is very important to the future of the program. Does anyone know Sanders status for the bowl and Wallace's status?
From 2010 through 2016 OSU never went more than 1 year without playing OU/ last game of the year for the Conference title.

This marks the 3rd year in a row that won't happen.

During that period, other than 2013,
OSU has had to have an NFL qb who would become one of the greatest we've ever had, a Bilitnekoff winner, a 2nd NFL receiver and multiple NFL running backs during the qb's tenure.

In 2013 we had 7 NFL players on defense.

So.....
If/when Hubbard and Wallace leave, if Sanders doesn't become an NFL qb or if we don't have 7 NFL players on our defense, history suggests that next year will be the 4th year in a row where we don't play OU/last game for the Conference title

That's a distinct downward trajectory from playing for it every other year.
 
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Cro

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From 2010 through 2016 OSU never went more than 1 year without playing OU/ last game of the year for the Conference title.

This marks the 3rd year in a row that won't happen.

During that period, other than 2013,
OSU has had to have an NFL qb who would become one of the greatest we've ever had, a Bilitnekoff winner, a 2nd NFL receiver and multiple NFL running backs during the qb's tenure.

In 2013 we had 7 NFL players.

So.....
If/when Hubbard and Wallace leave, if Sanders doesn't become an NFL qb or if we don't have 7 NFL players on our defense, history suggests that next year will be the 4th year in a row where we don't play OU/last game for the Conference title

That's a distinct downward trajectory from playing for it every other year.
wow:huh: the effort is there, tho................
 
Nov 16, 2013
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You serious.....???? Care to site some sources on which programs are cheating and how you know that?
I can read, surely if you can type you can read. I said cheating or problems, not just cheating. These illustrations were mainstream sports news stories.

Clemson- Had three players suspended for PEDS
Alabama- Has the normal crime and lack of punishment
UO- Kennedy Brooks (woman beater), punter (woman beater), Money Joe Mixon, need we continue?
LSU- Three suspended for pot, two suspended for beating down a guy at a bar
tosu- Player suspended for taking money to send family to a bowl game

That's the stuff from the past four months, you want more? We can go back ten years if we need to, but it ain't changing. The NCAA was so made at tosu that they suspended Missouri from the bowls for self reporting.
 

jobob85

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Gundy has specifically mentioned that he doesn't go after big recruits anymore, because they just turn him down, so its not worth the effort. Its not a funding issue, its a foundational, philosophical issue straight from our HC. More money won't help that.

If he really needed more money for recruiting or assistants, he would be advocating for it. But instead, he's primarily advocated for his own raises, which speaks volumes about his motivations.
Maybe if he had the revenue he would chase after the big fish.
 

wrenhal

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Aug 11, 2011
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ou is an outlier...focusing on that game ONLY is never going to bring you joy.
It's brought me less joy under Gundy, under the philosophy in question.

It's also brought us an overall record of 15-9 the last 2 years and an overall downtrend trajectory with no evidence of improving.

Tylan Wallace, Chuba Hubbard and Spencer Sanders, guys that don't fit into that narrative, were all 4 star players. Without them this year we are toast.
But we do/did have those guys, because they were recruited to come here and they came.

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Sep 16, 2004
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From 2010 through 2016 OSU never went more than 1 year without playing OU/ last game of the year for the Conference title.

This marks the 3rd year in a row that won't happen.

During that period, other than 2013,
OSU has had to have an NFL qb who would become one of the greatest we've ever had, a Bilitnekoff winner, a 2nd NFL receiver and multiple NFL running backs during the qb's tenure.

In 2013 we had 7 NFL players.

So.....
If/when Hubbard and Wallace leave, if Sanders doesn't become an NFL qb or if we don't have 7 NFL players on our defense, history suggests that next year will be the 4th year in a row where we don't play OU/last game for the Conference title

That's a distinct downward trajectory from playing for it every other year.
Like I said earlier, this is the first time in a decade a Gundy team has gone two consecutive years without a 10 win season. Right now, that’s a hiccup. I think we need more data before we can say it’s a downward trajectory.

As others stated, gained experience alone should lead to improvement considering we were the youngest P5 team in the nation.
 
Sep 16, 2004
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Tylan Wallace, Chuba Hubbard and Spencer Sanders, guys that don't fit into that narrative, were all 4 star players. Without them this year we are toast.
Or with 3 more like them, we’re a juggernaut. What’s your point? We have had elite receivers and NFL running backs pretty consistently. Sanders proved he is very talented and showed marked improvement this year. We recruit pretty well in the skill positions, whether or not it fits your narrative.
 

wrenhal

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Aug 11, 2011
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Dude 8 wins with a shot at 9 is better than 6 last year and 7 with the bowl...the guys you mentioned are all underclassmen and aren't necessarily done, despite certain posters wanting to make them done @ OSU. Our defense is young and improved over last year...that's NOT a downtrend trajectory, and yes it is evidence of improving. Your post would have been better had we totally flopped as you and Birry projected after Baylor, but somehow coaching held them together even after season ending injury to both Sanders and Wallace and we won 4 of 5 (granted they played in part of those games). IMHO, how we do in the bowl this year is very important to the future of the program. Does anyone know Sanders status for the bowl and Wallace's status?
From 2010 through 2016 OSU never went more than 1 year without playing OU/ last game of the year for the Conference title.

This marks the 3rd year in a row that won't happen.

During that period, other than 2013,
OSU has had to have an NFL qb who would become one of the greatest we've ever had, a Bilitnekoff winner, a 2nd NFL receiver and multiple NFL running backs during the qb's tenure.

In 2013 we had 7 NFL players.

So.....
If/when Hubbard and Wallace leave, if Sanders doesn't become an NFL qb or if we don't have 7 NFL players on our defense, history suggests that next year will be the 4th year in a row where we don't play OU/last game for the Conference title

That's a distinct downward trajectory from playing for it every other year.
I guarantee you the next year we won't be playing OU the last game for a chance to be in the conference title game, which is really what you were trying to say, because we don't play them the last game of our regular season.

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