Former National powers . . . now, not so much

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Birry

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Feb 6, 2007
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Here's a post Gundy scenario

Hire Marcus Arroyo
Then, with the money we save,
Pay Chad Morris whatever it takes to come be the offensive coordinator
Pay Todd Orlando whatever it takes to come be the defensive coordinator

Bring back JW Walsh

Then
Keep
Joe Bob
Richmond
Dunn
and
Dickey from the current staff

Then pay Brandon Weeden and Clint Chelf and Zac Robinson to be advisors to the program.
That's a great scenario. But I'd lean towards hiring a HC with more local / OSU ties. Personally, I've always wanted to see Brandon Weeden become the OC or HC someday. Have ZR coach the QBs.
 
Sep 12, 2013
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Here's a post Gundy scenario

Pay To__ Orlan_o whatever it takes to come be the defensive coordinator
Why the hell would we hire a Whorns retread? Why is his name spelled To__ Orlan_o in Texas?

He couldn't put together a top defense with the talent that Texas recruits what would he be able to do here? If you can't bring out the best in a 5* recruit, how are you going to do it in a 3*?
 

Birry

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What we have is a football program that is 6th in football revenue. Texas, OU, TCU, Tech and Baylor generate more. Most OSU fans complain about a product they don’t support financially.
How is more money going to help Gundy not run right up the middle into stacked boxes or utilize our Cowboy Backs in the passing game? How is more money going to make Gundy run a defensive scheme that gives us any chance against legit opponents? How is more money going to make Gundy place priority on special teams? How is more money going to make Gundy play to win? How is more money going to rid Gundy of his defeatist recruiting mindset? Because those are our problems, not money.
 

Rack

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What we have is a football program that is 6th in football revenue. Texas, OU, TCU, Tech and Baylor generate more. Most OSU fans complain about a product they don’t support financially.
It's amazing that we have overcome that and still are the second winningest team in the conference over the last decade.
 

wrenhal

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Here's a post Gundy scenario

Pay To__ Orlan_o whatever it takes to come be the defensive coordinator
Why the hell would we hire a Whorns retread? Why is his name spelled To__ Orlan_o in Texas?

He couldn't put together a top defense with the talent that Texas recruits what would he be able to do here? If you can't bring out the best in a 5* recruit, how are you going to do it in a 3*?
He's probably been talking to Orlando, and sharing his strategies and he seems open to them. Thinks that he'll listen to him better than our current coordinator.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
 
Sep 16, 2004
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But it seems like a good number of people are pretty cool with making a bowl and finishing above 0.500 in league play, so I doubt we see any changes.
Oversimplify much?

There’s a big difference between being .500 every year and doing what Nick Saban did at Alabama. I think the expectations of many of us fall between those extremes, which is where Gundy is currently. This is the first time in a decade he has gone two consecutive years without a 10 win season.

Now, if he doesn’t show improvement over the next 3 years, I think many of us will change our tune.
 
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Nov 14, 2010
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Why the hell would we hire a Whorns retread? Why is his name spelled To__ Orlan_o in Texas?

He couldn't put together a top defense with the talent that Texas recruits what would he be able to do here? If you can't bring out the best in a 5* recruit, how are you going to do it in a 3*?
Because I think Todd Orlando is a very good coach that had a lot of injuries to deal with that is allowing Herman to use him as a scapegoat.

In this league.....
Just 2 years ago.....
In his first season at UT, Orlando’s defense ranked eighth nationally in rushing (106.8 ypg), third nationally in third-down defense (.271), eighth in fourth-down defense (.300) and led the country in both defensive touchdowns (7) and interceptions returned for a touchdown (5). The Longhorns improved 53 spots (from 94th to 41st) in total defense, and 61 spots (from 90th to 29th) in scoring defense.

Again.....
He was able to do that in this league so their is an apples to apples base to compare to.

In his last year at UCONN they played in the Fiesta Bowl, behind the nation’s 10th-ranked passing efficiency defense and the 14th-best scoring defense (19.0 ppg). In his 1st year as DC at UCONN, the Huskies led the Big East Conference in total defense at 297.1 ypg, its lowest average since 1979.


At Utah State
"the Aggies defense ranked among the nation’s best in scoring defense (12th nationally in 2014 at 19.7 ppg, and seventh nationally in 2013 at 17.1 ppg) and turnovers forced with 59 over two seasons, the nation’s eighth-best two-year total. The USU defense was fourth nationally with 49 sacks in 2014 and second nationally with 114 tackles for loss as Utah State advanced to back-to-back bowl games during Orlando’s stay in Logan, Utah."

At Houston
"In his first year, his defense forced 12 teams below their scoring average with only two teams eclipsing their average, doing so by less than one point. The defense led the nation with 35 takeaways while ranking eighth nationally in rushing defense (108.9 yards per game) and 20th nationally in scoring defense (20.7 points per game)."

Houston beat Florida State in the Peach Bowl
In 2016
"UH featured the nation’s fourth-ranked rush defense (100.2 ypg), in addition to the nation’s 13th-best defense in total yards allowed (319.6 ypg). Houston was third nationally with five defensive touchdowns and allowed just 23.5 points per game. The Cougars also ranked as one of the nation’s best in bringing pressure, ranking 14th in both sacks and tackles for loss."'

Orlando is a terrific coach that is a victim of injuries, the culture around Texas and Herman needing a scapegoat.
 
Sep 12, 2013
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At Houston
...

Orlando is a terrific coach that is a victim of injuries, the culture around Texas and Herman needing a scapegoat.
At Houston he had Ed Oliver. That dude would help anyone's resume.

At Texas, between their recruiting budget and well... being Texas, and they shouldn't have issues with depth.

We'll see where Orlando lands and what he does at his next gig. So far I'm not that impressed.
 

jobob85

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How is more money going to help Gundy not run right up the middle into stacked boxes or utilize our Cowboy Backs in the passing game? How is more money going to make Gundy run a defensive scheme that gives us any chance against legit opponents? How is more money going to make Gundy place priority on special teams? How is more money going to make Gundy play to win? How is more money going to rid Gundy of his defeatist recruiting mindset? Because those are our problems, not money.
More money for recruiting, more money for assistant coaches. It’s not that difficult to figure out that could make OSU more competitive.
 

Birry

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More money for recruiting, more money for assistant coaches. It’s not that difficult to figure out that could make OSU more competitive.
Gundy has specifically mentioned that he doesn't go after big recruits anymore, because they just turn him down, so its not worth the effort. Its not a funding issue, its a foundational, philosophical issue straight from our HC. More money won't help that.

If he really needed more money for recruiting or assistants, he would be advocating for it. But instead, he's primarily advocated for his own raises, which speaks volumes about his motivations.
 

Rack

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You gotta remember that in this discussion about money not changing things, Birry is currently not attending games nor giving to the program...so he's a bit jaded, and IMHO kind of disqualified of having a harsh opinion on the matter of money and it's importance to the programs future. I'm not a big donor either so my opinion means squat as well in terms of money's impact, but it stands to reason that more money means more wins and better facilities / systems / food / travel / uniforms / recruiting... and overall fun for the program.
 
Nov 16, 2013
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Personally, I'd prefer we fire Gundy and get someone that will take us to the next level so I can laugh at all the idiots that thought we could never be better than making a bowl and losing to uo 85% of the time. Would be much more satisfying...

Do you honestly believe we can't find someone to run a clean program, land in the 30-40 range in recruiting rankings, run 7 different plays per game on offense, and field soggy toilet paper for defense?
The clean program will not happen. If you want to win at the national level you will be cheating, hiring lots of defense attorneys, bringing in questionable individuals. It's going to happen. So you have to have more money
 

Rack

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Gundy has specifically mentioned that he doesn't go after big recruits anymore, because they just turn him down, so its not worth the effort. Its not a funding issue, its a foundational, philosophical issue straight from our HC. More money won't help that.

If he really needed more money for recruiting or assistants, he would be advocating for it. But instead, he's primarily advocated for his own raises, which speaks volumes about his motivations.
I'd like to see this quote and it's context regarding not going after big recruits anymore...I'm pretty damn sure we go after them but I'm also pretty damn sure that they 99% turn us down.
 
Nov 14, 2010
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I'd like to see this quote and it's context regarding not going after big recruits anymore...I'm pretty damn sure we go after them but I'm also pretty damn sure that they 99% turn us down.
“We win 10, 12 games, and we can get in on these [five-star] guys,” Gundy told ESPN. “We would get in a little bit, but we didn’t finish. So right, wrong or indifferent, we’ve gone right back to know your area, find out who’s out there, this is what we’re looking for to fit our system. Do they like to play football? Do they have respect for themselves, which gives them a chance to be successful? Do they fit what we’re looking for? Do we believe in them? If so, we’re going to go for them.”
 

Rack

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That's a great scenario. But I'd lean towards hiring a HC with more local / OSU ties. Personally, I've always wanted to see Brandon Weeden become the OC or HC someday. Have ZR coach the QBs.
That's more likely with the current head coach than anyone else...you do realize that when you hire new head coaches they bring in their guys...None of those guys are likely to coach under someone other than Gundy at OSU cause he's their guy.
 
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Rack

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“We win 10, 12 games, and we can get in on these [five-star] guys,” Gundy told ESPN. “We would get in a little bit, but we didn’t finish. So right, wrong or indifferent, we’ve gone right back to know your area, find out who’s out there, this is what we’re looking for to fit our system. Do they like to play football? Do they have respect for themselves, which gives them a chance to be successful? Do they fit what we’re looking for? Do we believe in them? If so, we’re going to go for them.”
So, basically Gundy is saying we recruit smarter than those who only chase waterfalls and instead stick to the rivers and the lakes that were used too (i.e. rivers and lakes that have produced for us). Thanks for that context. So, basically that approach has brought us the 2nd best record in the conference for the past decade and a top 12 one nationally over that period as well?
 
Nov 14, 2010
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So, basically Gundy is saying we recruit smarter than those who only chase waterfalls and instead stick to the rivers and the lakes that were used too (i.e. rivers and lakes that have produced for us). thanks for that context. So, basically that approach has brought us the 2nd best record in the conference for the past decade and a top 12 one nationally over that period as well?
Its brought us is recruiting that isn't as good as it should be which is a large part of being 2-13
 

Birry

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So, basically Gundy is saying we recruit smarter than those who only chase waterfalls and instead stick to the rivers and the lakes that were used too (i.e. rivers and lakes that have produced for us). thanks for that context. So, basically that approach has brought us the 2nd best record in the conference for the past decade and a top 12 one nationally over that period as well?
Exactly. And I actually don't have a huge problem with that approach. My main complaints are his terrible game management, and more commitment to his own bank account than bringing in top notch assistants.