Former Defense Deputy claims "we know UFOs are real"

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Rack

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#61
Odds seem to bear out you"re a doubting Thomas but don"t let the facts get in your way.
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Facts...yes...facts. ;-)

UFO's certainly exist, as anything in the air that we don't know what it is...we classify as one. Sure there could be other intelligent life out there, and as a Christian it's not cult like(as someone mentioned) to think that God "might" have created other beings (i.e. as he did Angelic Beings )...We see him as all powerful so sure it's possible....I just happen to think it's "possible" that he did, but we won't know for sure until it's useful to the plan / story of humanity that is unfolding. Christian thought doesn't completely rule out other life out there, it just includes purpose and meaning for all life.

However, if money is to be made on documentaries and books, you know it's going to be a topic that persist and is built upon since it's really an unknown factor. It's fun to think about so we continue to speculate and twist and turn up "evidence" one way or another. No harm or foul to it or in it.
 

wrenhal

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#62
So you're calling out all Christians? Because unless they are part of some cult, or don't understand the Bible, Christians believe we are alone in the universe. Not narcissistic, just faith that God created the universe and chose to create life here.

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I am a Christian and I think it's narcissistic to think that we are the only intelligent being in the entirety of the vast universe.

You can be a Christian and believe in science. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Charles Darwin was a devout Christian...
I honestly can't tell you whether Darwin was a true Christian or not, although his work has been used to justify macro evolution, which is not real and there is no evidence of, as a means to undermine Christianity. And I don't believe you can be a Christian and truly believe that there's intelligent life anywhere else on the universe because God made Man in his image he created the universe he created us and that pretty much negates him creating life elsewhere.

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Rack

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#63
I am a Christian and I think it's narcissistic to think that we are the only intelligent being in the entirety of the vast universe.

You can be a Christian and believe in science. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Charles Darwin was a devout Christian...
I agree and this is true, plus Darwin kind of concluded later in life that his theory of cross species evolution was inaccurate and it has been debated that he actually denounced evolution totally on his death bed. Clearly some of those accounts may be shady, but he was clearly conflicted between his faith and his science most of his life (I think he didn't need to be in conflict). As a Christian, history and science both, at least to me, are an indication of a creator that cares about his creation. As a creator who loves his creations, God seems to want us also to create and to learn and to wonder. It indicates to me that God sees invention, creation, and wonder as wholesome pursuits for answers to life's questions...not necessarily questions about God's existence but more about the how's and the whys of life's journey.

So God as a creator, created us in the image of a creator, an innovator, a designer, a straightest, a lover and an artist....and so much more. This means it's good and honorable and wholesome for our souls to work and create and dream. It's also a whole lot of fun and gives us meaning...it actually shows that God loves us, in a more profound way than most any of us realize...and that, is very very cool.
 
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Rack

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#64
I honestly can't tell you whether Darwin was a true Christian or not, although his work has been used to justify macro evolution, which is not real and there is no evidence of, as a means to undermine Christianity. And I don't believe you can be a Christian and truly believe that there's intelligent life anywhere else on the universe because God made Man in his image he created the universe he created us and that pretty much negates him creating life elsewhere.

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He did create angelic beings and things that we haven't even encountered yet...says so in the scriptures. So, I think you are being a bit rigid to conclude what you do. Christianity is a faith that Jesus was the promised messiah and that all mankind must come to that conclusion to inherit life after death as well as life meaning here. It's doesn't limit God to only being our creator, as he created the universe. It's an interesting concept.
 

CTeamPoke

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#65
I honestly can't tell you whether Darwin was a true Christian or not, although his work has been used to justify macro evolution, which is not real and there is no evidence of, as a means to undermine Christianity. And I don't believe you can be a Christian and truly believe that there's intelligent life anywhere else on the universe because God made Man in his image he created the universe he created us and that pretty much negates him creating life elsewhere.

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Pretty narcissistic of you to claim that I'm not a Christian...
 

wrenhal

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#66
Odds seem to bear out you"re a doubting Thomas but don"t let the facts get in your way.
View attachment 70670
Facts...yes...facts. ;-)

UFO's certainly exist, as anything in the air that we don't know what it is...we classify as one. Sure there could be other intelligent life out there, and as a Christian it's not cult like(as someone mentioned) to think that God "might" have created other beings (i.e. as he did Angelic Beings )...We see him as all powerful so sure it's possible....I just happen to think it's "possible" that he did, but we won't know for sure until it's useful to the plan / story of humanity that is unfolding. Christian thought doesn't completely rule out other life out there, it just includes purpose and meaning for all life.

However, if money is to be made on documentaries and books, you know it's going to be a topic that persist and is built upon since it's really an unknown factor. It's fun to think about so we continue to speculate and twist and turn up "evidence" one way or another. No harm or foul to it or in it.
So you think aliens are Angels? Sounds cultish to me.

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wrenhal

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#67
I honestly can't tell you whether Darwin was a true Christian or not, although his work has been used to justify macro evolution, which is not real and there is no evidence of, as a means to undermine Christianity. And I don't believe you can be a Christian and truly believe that there's intelligent life anywhere else on the universe because God made Man in his image he created the universe he created us and that pretty much negates him creating life elsewhere.

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Pretty narcissistic of you to claim that I'm not a Christian...
I'm just saying the belief that God created other intelligent beings and put them on other planets is pretty extra-biblica. You can be a Christian all you want but I just think that that is one of those things that is not held out by scripture.

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Rack

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#68
So you think aliens are Angels? Sounds cultish to me.

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I didn't say that I think aliens are Angels, I said that anything is possible with God and to limit him might actually be more "cultish" (or pharisaical) than what I'm saying. Bottom line, we don't know. God gave us in his word what is necessary for our understanding of things to come, he told us to do the things we do in order to honor him. He's a creator, a planner, a straightest, a designer, a lover, an artist and shows profound love for his creation. So much so that he sent his only son to die for it. So, wrenhal, how is it being honoring to God and/or Christ like to imply that someone believes cultish things when all we know is what the word tells us...AND one of the main things it tells us is that God created the Universe and everything in it...It doesn't say he created only this world and those beings that it talks about...and it even leaves a hint that he did create other things...So with that said, would not the Angels be considered Aliens by unbelieving mankind if they showed up right now? In my opinion they nearly certainly would. Not saying you have to believe that, but isn't it in the realm of possibilities that mankind could "think" that?

And, just for arguments sake, don't you see that the world is actually being prepared for the arrival of these heavenly "beings" by our culture, movies, books and these new reports. You know Satan is the prince and power of this world temporarily, as such he's going to create confusion and division...how better to do that to make mankind question God's end time planning by throwing "Aliens" in the mix? Yep, that's theoretical and I don't like talking about Eschatology as it puts people off, and may even be counterproductive to the spread of the Good news...however it is kind of fun/interesting to think about.
 
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Rack

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#70
Just for fun...lots more of these exist...one can interrupt how they like...but to me they look to the stars in one way or another and indicate stuff...lol...might be coming from there at some point.

Nehemiah 9:6 - Thou, [even] thou, [art] LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all [things] that [are] therein, the seas, and all that [is] therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

Isaiah 45:12 - I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, [even] my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

Isaiah 13:5 - They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, [even] the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.

Revelation 9:7-11 - And the shapes of the locusts [were] like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads [were] as it were crowns like gold, and their faces [were] as the faces of men. (Read More...)

Ephesians 6:12 - For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

Hebrews 11:13 - These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced [them], and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
 
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#71
I'm just saying the belief that God created other intelligent beings and put them on other planets is pretty extra-biblica. You can be a Christian all you want but I just think that that is one of those things that is not held out by scripture.

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To play Devil's Advocate here (yes, pun intended), isn't it a bit limiting to believe that the bible, as we know it, is the only possible way God could deliver that message?
 

CTeamPoke

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#73
I'm just saying the belief that God created other intelligent beings and put them on other planets is pretty extra-biblica. You can be a Christian all you want but I just think that that is one of those things that is not held out by scripture.

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There are a ton of things not in scripture that we have to interact with every single day.

Hell there are a lot of things not in scripture that people just assume are there in order to advance their beliefs...
 

Cowboy2U

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#74
I honestly can't tell you whether Darwin was a true Christian or not, although his work has been used to justify macro evolution, which is not real and there is no evidence of, as a means to undermine Christianity. And I don't believe you can be a Christian and truly believe that there's intelligent life anywhere else on the universe because God made Man in his image he created the universe he created us and that pretty much negates him creating life elsewhere.

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Soooo, if God created us in his image then why is it so hard to understand that his image may be 5 trillion light years away? They can't get to us nor we to them sooooo. And who's to say God didn't engineer other beings that may appear in the same form he did, not necessarily "human" form? If for no other reason than odds, it's pretty arrogant to think this little rock called Earth is all there is for life. IMHO
 

CaliforniaCowboy

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#75
Soooo, if God created us in his image then why is it so hard to understand that his image may be 5 trillion light years away? They can't get to us nor we to them sooooo. And who's to say God didn't engineer other beings that may appear in the same form he did, not necessarily "human" form? If for no other reason than odds, it's pretty arrogant to think this little rock called Earth is all there is for life. IMHO
admittedly I'm easily confused by the vastness and complexities of light and space.... but wouldn't that 5 trillion light years make it about 5 trillion years ago, meaning that we would not have yet existed? (or possibly that they no longer exist?)
 

Cowboy2U

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#76
admittedly I'm easily confused by the vastness and complexities of light and space.... but wouldn't that 5 trillion light years make it about 5 trillion years ago, meaning that we would not have yet existed? (or possibly that they no longer exist?)
This is not the only "universe" existing, it's estimated at 13.8 billion years old. Just because we can't see the others doesn't mean they aren't there. The vastness of space is mind boggling. Not saying we have or have not been visited but, again, if you believe in odds it's pretty safe to say we are not alone.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

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#77
This is not the only "universe" existing, it's estimated at 13.8 billion years old. Just because we can't see the others doesn't mean they aren't there. The vastness of space is mind boggling. Not saying we have or have not been visited but, again, if you believe in odds it's pretty safe to say we are not alone.
It's likely an either or. Either Earth won the equivalent of the Lottery, and it's unique or one in a billion,

or

it's very common and there are millions of life bearing "earths", even within our own galaxy....

which still doesn't explain why our goverment, and every government on earth would cover it up, nor why there is absolutely zero evidence... anywhere.

When put into that context, your "odds" start to take on a hue of insignificance.

I have no idea, and would tend towards "life is everywhere", but that still doesn't explain the oddity of our situation.

multiple universes..... hmmm... naw

"It's not particularly a useful realization, just an interesting prediction that falls out of these theories.

So why do so many theoretical physicists write papers about the multiverse? About parallel Universes and their connection to our own through this multiverse? Why do they claim that the multiverse is connected to the string landscape, the cosmological constant, and even to the fact that our Universe is finely-tuned for life?

Because even though it's obviously a bad idea, they don't have any better ones."
 

Cowboy2U

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#78
admittedly I'm easily confused by the vastness and complexities of light and space.... but wouldn't that 5 trillion light years make it about 5 trillion years ago, meaning that we would not have yet existed? (or possibly that they no longer exist?)
It's likely an either or. Either Earth won the equivalent of the Lottery, and it's unique or one in a billion,

or

it's very common and there are millions of life bearing "earths", even within our own galaxy....

which still doesn't explain why our goverment, and every government on earth would cover it up, nor why there is absolutely zero evidence... anywhere.

When put into that context, your "odds" start to take on a hue of insignificance.

I have no idea, and would tend towards "life is everywhere", but that still doesn't explain the oddity of our situation.

multiple universes..... hmmm... naw

"It's not particularly a useful realization, just an interesting prediction that falls out of these theories.

So why do so many theoretical physicists write papers about the multiverse? About parallel Universes and their connection to our own through this multiverse? Why do they claim that the multiverse is connected to the string landscape, the cosmological constant, and even to the fact that our Universe is finely-tuned for life?

Because even though it's obviously a bad idea, they don't have any better ones."
Well, one huge reason proof may not be shown or that govts are not telling is maybe the effect it would have on the population...might be similar to an announcement that a comet the size of our moon is headed our way in the next 5 years, chaos. The other part of this is just because you consider life to be an exact replica of what it is on Earth. It most probably isn't. Anyway you have your opinion and I have mine, neither of us can prove our case so maybe you can just watch cartoons while I watch alien opinion shows. And just because you don't agree doesn't mean cosmic physicists produce bad ideas, they're a lot smarter than you and I and have forgotten more than either of us will ever know.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

Federal Marshal
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#79
Well, one huge reason proof may not be shown or that govts are not telling is maybe the effect it would have on the population...might be similar to an announcement that a comet the size of our moon is headed our way in the next 5 years, chaos. The other part of this is just because you consider life to be an exact replica of what it is on Earth. It most probably isn't. Anyway you have your opinion and I have mine, neither of us can prove our case so maybe you can just watch cartoons while I watch alien opinion shows. And just because you don't agree doesn't mean cosmic physicists produce bad ideas, they're a lot smarter than you and I and have forgotten more than either of us will ever know.
Yeah, that's it.... people can't handle it, but government people are a special brand of people, that are smarter than us, and more adjusted than us, and don't have families like us, so they can handle it, while the other people can't.... yeah... that has to be it..... SMH. Oh brother.

anyway - great idea. Always loved Marvin the Martian

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Cowboy2U

Federal Marshal
Mar 31, 2008
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#80
Yeah, that's it.... people can't handle it, but government people are a special brand of people, that are smarter than us, and more adjusted than us, and don't have families like us, so they can handle it, while the other people can't.... yeah... that has to be it..... SMH. Oh brother.

anyway - great idea. Always loved Marvin the Martian

View attachment 70687
Pathetic retort but kinda expected. Have a nice day. By the way cosmic physicists are not govt people, they are scientists. It's obvious you don't have to have any brains to be a "govt employee", look at the top of our govt for proof.