Dreaded sense of inevitability

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Oct 30, 2007
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I’ve got a positive! We’re the goddamn better team.
The more I think about it, the more I tend to agree with you. We've beaten both of the teams that OU has lost to. Texas took them to 4 overtimes, and we would've beaten the Longhorns by double digits without the 4 turnovers. Our defense is better than theirs, and our offense has a lot of potential if they're healthy.

You can make a strong argument that we should win the game if we're relatively healthy. At the very least, it should be a great game. Go Pokes!
 
Nov 25, 2009
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So increased tackling in practice would have resulted in a myriad of different QB decisions? Which would have lead to more wins?

And now suddenly it’s not Gundy that’s holding us back? Then why, heretofore, is it Gundy’s fault for not playing SI?

I think you’re discovering the desire to peddle the “Gundy makes bad QB decisions” narrative that is full flaws doesn’t make much sense, and you’re now searching for a different reason for your displeasure with the offense, wins, or whatever.


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Is Gundy fault because we are forgetting fast that being balance is about distributing the balls to many receiver all over the field.

Dana Holgelson taught us what is balance. It was not about just rushing yd vs. passing yds ratio.

When the QB get to carry more than your back-up RB (which is our best back currently), and only see and throw to just 2 receivers mainlyand mainly just within 25 yds downfield ( to his right side of the field mainly.)
We are NOT balance.

It is not about the rushing : passing yards ratio. It is about number of plays, on How, who and where the balls were distributed.At the end ...Normally the Passing yds should be more than rushing yds . By nature that each passing play usually gains more than any typical smash-mouth running play. We want the football be shared by a greater number of more players.

Sharing the balls and the plays begins with the QB.
 
Nov 25, 2009
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We can certainly agree on that. Nobody is gonna admit they’re wrong. But in the process of observing others argue, perhaps some fans pick up nuggets of information, gain molecules of perspective, and eventually become better fans. And by better I mean the type of social media posters the coaches don’t have to direct their players away from.

One more thing about QB decisions.
The first hurdle any QB that’s new to a system has to clear before getting meaningful practice snaps is getting the team to line up correctly. That is, making sure the other 10 players are correctly aligned before calling for the snap. And to accomplish that, you gotta know the playbook, the play calls and the terminology. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how big, strong and accurate a QB is, or how well he sees the field or moves in the pocket. If a QB can’t get the team lined up correctly, he’s gonna find himself behind the QBs that can.

Who’s to say which of Gundy’s “bad” QB decisions were impacted simply by the inability of one or more QBs to get the team lined up?


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Gundy QB decision for his kind of plays is correct and has been correct. The question is...whether this is the right offense we need?

Gundy love and Gundy is the Zac Robinson and Bobby Reid Offense. Boone Pickens planted Dana Holgelson so that we moved on and progressed to the best Offensive output in our history. To revert back to this Old Gundy Offense is a hindering move.
 
Jan 13, 2008
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Lets start with the decision to go with Cate over Weeden.
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.
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So, Cate starts against CU, demonstrates he's not ready for the lights, and Gundy makes a bold move to put in a guy that isn't equipped to execute what they'd practiced all year. Brilliant move, great result. ZRob ran the ball 146 times in 2009. In 2010 Gundy brings in a new OC to redesign the offense for Weeden.
This is pure gold, because if Gundy didn't make the move, you would consider the fans on this board idiots for being upset that he left Cate in the entire game.

If 1) Cate would have stayed in the game 2) OSU loses 3) posts on this board complained about the decision, then here is a sample of Gumby's replies to those posts:
"Cate is obviously the best choice otherwise Gundy wouldn't have went with him."
"How do you know more than the coaches?"
"You think you know more from your couch?"
"Do you watch them practice?"
"What facts do you have that Weeden would have performed better?" (obviously impossible, since it didn't happen so there can't be facts, but Gumby fails to realize that)
"We were completely over-matched. You cannot put this on Cate."

Gundy is without reproach in your mind.
 

Rack

Legendary Cowboy
Oct 13, 2004
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The more I think about it, the more I tend to agree with you. We've beaten both of the teams that OU has lost to. Texas took them to 4 overtimes, and we would've beaten the Longhorns by double digits without the 4 turnovers. Our defense is better than theirs, and our offense has a lot of potential if they're healthy.

You can make a strong argument that we should win the game if we're relatively healthy. At the very least, it should be a great game. Go Pokes!
IF we don't turn the ball over and play our game we will win...that's the issue, will we allow the offense to play our game...and IF we do can we hold on to the ball.
 
Oct 30, 2007
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One more thing about QB decisions.
The first hurdle any QB that’s new to a system has to clear before getting meaningful practice snaps is getting the team to line up correctly. That is, making sure the other 10 players are correctly aligned before calling for the snap. And to accomplish that, you gotta know the playbook, the play calls and the terminology. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how big, strong and accurate a QB is, or how well he sees the field or moves in the pocket. If a QB can’t get the team lined up correctly, he’s gonna find himself behind the QBs that can.

Who’s to say which of Gundy’s “bad” QB decisions were impacted simply by the inability of one or more QBs to get the team lined up?
I thought of this post last night after seeing Tulsa get a penalty for misalignment under their 3rd team quarterback. He sure did a great job of leading them to a win though. That was a fun game to watch.
 

Rack

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So Tulsa is now 5-1 with their 1 loss to us...They may actually be our best win...not just the best non-con win in the country. No doubt they are about the same as ISU and KSU. When do they play Cinci after Cinci chickened out earlier in the year?
 
Oct 30, 2007
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IF we don't turn the ball over and play our game we will win...that's the issue, will we allow the offense to play our game...and IF we do can we hold on to the ball.
IMO, turnovers and the health of our offensive line will be the keys to the game. I'll be watching both quarterbacks for ball security. Rattler has played well over the past few games, but he hasn't faced a defense as good as ours. Hopefully we can force him to turn the ball over.
 
Sep 29, 2011
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It wasn’t that Weeden didn’t know the playbook, he couldn’t execute a good chunk of the play book.


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Yeah, I am calling BS on that one. Almost three full seasons later I am not buying the "does not know/cannot execute the playbook" argument when comparing backup #1 to backup #2. Neither had taken meaningful snaps in their career. Again, looking at a truncated film, but sure seems like they ran the exact same plays in the second half of the CU game as the first but they worked because Weeden could actually complete a pass and keep the defense honest.

Weeden was, and still is a goober in the aspect he does not take everything like his life depended on it. More people need his disposition. He is a good-ol-boy who at the time had a bank account full of money, a hot wife, was much older than everyone else and could say he played professional baseball. He did not have to be there and his devil-may-care attitude kept him from being #2, not his ability.

My opinion. Unless you are Brandon Weeden or Mike Gundy, our opinions are just that. In hindsight not only did it not work....in my opinion....there is nothing I could see that would justify Gundy going with Cate in the first place. Some degree of speculation as to the worthiness of the decision can be made based on results.
From 2005 thru 2009 in the zone-read, our QB kept the ball 120-160 times a year. If you think Weeden could effectively run the zone-read, I can’t help you.


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Sep 29, 2011
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Lets start with the decision to go with Cate over Weeden.

The story begins in 2005, Gundy's first year. We ran a zone-read offense with the good chunk of the plays being QB keepers. Donovon Woods ran the ball 100 times in 2005. Cate signs in Feb of 2006 as a dual-threat QB recruited to run the zone-read.
Facts Pro-Style, but you do you.

View attachment 87197 View attachment 87198
You’re correct on that point. Cate was still QB2 based on time in system and practice snaps.


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Sep 29, 2011
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Lets start with the decision to go with Cate over Weeden.
.
.
.
So, Cate starts against CU, demonstrates he's not ready for the lights, and Gundy makes a bold move to put in a guy that isn't equipped to execute what they'd practiced all year. Brilliant move, great result. ZRob ran the ball 146 times in 2009. In 2010 Gundy brings in a new OC to redesign the offense for Weeden.
This is pure gold, because if Gundy didn't make the move, you would consider the fans on this board idiots for being upset that he left Cate in the entire game.

If 1) Cate would have stayed in the game 2) OSU loses 3) posts on this board complained about the decision, then here is a sample of Gumby's replies to those posts:
"Cate is obviously the best choice otherwise Gundy wouldn't have went with him."
"How do you know more than the coaches?"
"You think you know more from your couch?"
"Do you watch them practice?"
"What facts do you have that Weeden would have performed better?" (obviously impossible, since it didn't happen so there can't be facts, but Gumby fails to realize that)
"We were completely over-matched. You cannot put this on Cate."

Gundy is without reproach in your mind.
So you want to play what-ifs to prove a point?

Gundy has his reasons for what he does, some of which we’ll never know. Seems kinda pointless to second-guess things based on factors we don’t know.


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Sep 29, 2011
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One more thing about QB decisions.
The first hurdle any QB that’s new to a system has to clear before getting meaningful practice snaps is getting the team to line up correctly. That is, making sure the other 10 players are correctly aligned before calling for the snap. And to accomplish that, you gotta know the playbook, the play calls and the terminology. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how big, strong and accurate a QB is, or how well he sees the field or moves in the pocket. If a QB can’t get the team lined up correctly, he’s gonna find himself behind the QBs that can.

Who’s to say which of Gundy’s “bad” QB decisions were impacted simply by the inability of one or more QBs to get the team lined up?
I thought of this post last night after seeing Tulsa get a penalty for misalignment under their 3rd team quarterback. He sure did a great job of leading them to a win though. That was a fun game to watch.
Yeah, that was nuts.

You think some Tulsa fans are bitching about their QB depth chart?

That’s all you’d hear on this message board if it was us.


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Jan 13, 2008
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IMO, turnovers and the health of our offensive line will be the keys to the game. I'll be watching both quarterbacks for ball security. Rattler has played well over the past few games, but he hasn't faced a defense as good as ours. Hopefully we can force him to turn the ball over.
Wouldn't mind seeing a replay of the 2001 game with pressure on the QB.
Nate Hybl with 3 INT's and -27 yds rushing (sacks). OU had 0 rushing yards for the game.

Interesting that Freshman Justin Fields came in for Aso Pogi after he threw 2 INT's in the first 3 series.

I think this was the Dean Blevins, OU will win by 42 or something like that. I was in OKC that weekend and there was a restaurant with a score prediction on it (Chargrill? - NW Highway).
Went to a bar with my parents to watch the game. We caught crap the whole game until the end. OU 20'something year old fan attacked an OSU fan and got whooped. I tipped the waitress extra and told her it was so she could buy a new shirt (out of character for me to rub it in someone's face, but after 3 hours of her smack talk, it felt justified)
 
Oct 7, 2015
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Given the O-line, I would look for OU to bring the house a few times early to set the tone. While SS gets the blame for the TO's, IMO some are the result of D pressure.
The two botched handoffs and throwing the ball right to defenders isn't the o-lines fault. Holding on to the ball too long isn't their fault either. If we are going to play a drop back passing game, as we did much of the first half vs KSU, he's the wrong guy. If we are going to play run first then he's the right guy but defensive players know that as well and key on our running backs more with that type of attack because they really don't have to worry about receivers getting behind the offense. You put a drop back first guy, especially with quick release, you open up the running and passing game and defenses cannot key on anyone. Long passes are harder if the line sucks but they are open one play a series because of trying to defend the short game over and over again. When the DL gets tired of constant rush on quick passing game..then you hit them deep. Slants and TE plays also start to be open when you aren't afraid that your QB is a turnover machine. HINT to everyone on the board...Gundy is so conservative right now because he doesn't trust his QB and RB not to turn it over...he will NEVER say this, but that is what it is.
What leads fans to believe they HAVE the answer to the right offensive approach, personnel and play calls without the benefit of attending practice, detailed personnel evaluation and advanced scouting, and that coaches with access to all of the above don’t have the right answer?

It’s literally beyond comprehension.


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You sound more like a wife than a fan.


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OrangeFan69

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Apr 24, 2010
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Are you guys doing a comedy bit from a movie or something?

You're still arguing about Cate vs. Weeden? Like for real? Zac Robinson vs. Bobby Reid??

Whaaaaaa? In 2020?

That was over a DECADE ago. There are some people in this thread that clearly prefer arguing and holding onto old grumpy feelings than embracing the facts
1) We have a good team. A nationally ranked team.
2) Two QBs that could start at many P5 programs.
3) We have a chance to take the driver's seat in the Big 12 Conference for the first time in a decade.
4) Our defense is top 10 in the country, Obviously better when everyone is healthy.
5) A chance to beat a team we've had a horrible record against on the road on national television

I truly believe some of you would complain about Bella Hadid slipping into your DMs.

Take a walk, play catch with your dog, build something in your garage.

ENJOY THIS FREAKING RIDE GENTLEMEN
 
Sep 29, 2011
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Given the O-line, I would look for OU to bring the house a few times early to set the tone. While SS gets the blame for the TO's, IMO some are the result of D pressure.
The two botched handoffs and throwing the ball right to defenders isn't the o-lines fault. Holding on to the ball too long isn't their fault either. If we are going to play a drop back passing game, as we did much of the first half vs KSU, he's the wrong guy. If we are going to play run first then he's the right guy but defensive players know that as well and key on our running backs more with that type of attack because they really don't have to worry about receivers getting behind the offense. You put a drop back first guy, especially with quick release, you open up the running and passing game and defenses cannot key on anyone. Long passes are harder if the line sucks but they are open one play a series because of trying to defend the short game over and over again. When the DL gets tired of constant rush on quick passing game..then you hit them deep. Slants and TE plays also start to be open when you aren't afraid that your QB is a turnover machine. HINT to everyone on the board...Gundy is so conservative right now because he doesn't trust his QB and RB not to turn it over...he will NEVER say this, but that is what it is.
What leads fans to believe they HAVE the answer to the right offensive approach, personnel and play calls without the benefit of attending practice, detailed personnel evaluation and advanced scouting, and that coaches with access to all of the above don’t have the right answer?

It’s literally beyond comprehension.


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You sound more like a wife than a fan.


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Ooooh, burn!




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Aug 16, 2012
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From 2005 thru 2009 in the zone-read, our QB kept the ball 120-160 times a year. If you think Weeden could effectively run the zone-read, I can’t help you.


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I said it above but it must have gotten lost.

First half of the CU game....Cate ran the ball....2 times, one being a scramble after a broken play. Offense was NOT a zone read, it was a straight forward pistol. There was no give-take option for the QB to make.

Second half of the CU game....Weeden ran the ball 3 times. Offense was NOT a zone read, it was a straight forward pistol. There was no give-take option for the QB to make.

Do not care about the rest of the season under ZRob, the question on the table is whether Cate should have started over Weeden. The offense was geared for them as they were similar, pro-style QBs. We are comparing them to each other, not to ZRob.

I do not need your help, but thanks for not offering it anyway.
 
Sep 29, 2011
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From 2005 thru 2009 in the zone-read, our QB kept the ball 120-160 times a year. If you think Weeden could effectively run the zone-read, I can’t help you.


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I said it above but it must have gotten lost.

First half of the CU game....Cate ran the ball....2 times, one being a scramble after a broken play. Offense was NOT a zone read, it was a straight forward pistol. There was no give-take option for the QB to make.

Second half of the CU game....Weeden ran the ball 3 times. Offense was NOT a zone read, it was a straight forward pistol. There was no give-take option for the QB to make.

Do not care about the rest of the season under ZRob, the question on the table is whether Cate should have started over Weeden. The offense was geared for them as they were similar, pro-style QBs. We are comparing them to each other, not to ZRob.

I do not need your help, but thanks for not offering it anyway.
Our offense was the zone-read. In fact, I believe ZRob got hurt later in the season on a QB keeper off the zone-read.

The QB depth chart is determined based on the offense you run, not a truncated version.


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