Dayton, OH Mass Shooting Leaves 9 Dead 16 Injured Outside Bar

[wrenhal]

I agree with the statistical approach to this. I always have to remind my wife of how many schools AREN'T shot up every day just for perspective. On the other hand people like myself don't worry so much about the greater number of murders that occur in rougher parts of big cities because we aren't in gangs or hanging out in such dangerous areas whereas we do go to Walmart or movies.

We as a country do the same thing with immigration from Mexico. Aprox 900,000 Mexican citizens travel across our border as visitors and legally within the US and spend ~$25 Million per month and return home every month...month after month...after month

Yeah but nobody is saying anything about those people not being allowed across the border since they come here legally.

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[Rack]

Benman I don't always agree with you on things. But I do like to hear somebody that actually searches out things for themselves and finds information to make their decision and their choices rather than just being flippant and responsive with their emotions.
Unfortunately I have a child that is one of those flippant responsive emotional people and he won't listen to anything I say right now on this and it's mainly because of his friends. Sad part is I raised him to be smarter than that.

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15-18? I understand...

 

[CaliforniaCowboy]

That makes sense...I just don't think it's a time for political discussion when these things happen again and again but one of our shared humanity. Yet we are programed by politicians and the media to go right to political outrage or political solutions for problems that are deeper than anything politics can fix. It's a sickness in America of division and blame...yet few want to really lode the blame on the perp, just the environment that the perp is raised / educated in. I'm honestly not sure it's fixable without major societal change to be considerate of others rights and life as just as high as our own. For me that's faith, but for those who don't share my faith, I'm just not sure of their answer. My hope is that they find a faith of self denial and others first and move their spirit in it's direction.

it's not just an "American problem", so I'm not sure why everybody expects an American solution

you are 4.3 times more likely to be killed in a mass shooting in New Zealand. (for example)

the U.S. falls somewhere in the middle for 1st world countries. (not the top, nor the worst)

 

[wrenhal]

I think that's worth remembering, and most rational people aren't anti immigrant, but it's fair to have enough control over the border to know who is coming and going and have some say so in who we want to keep out.

And 178,000 foreign nationals enter the US every single day and we have control over them and know who they are and have given them permission to do so. Statistically we have pretty good control over our border, but it could always be better.

Because most of our enforcement agents spend their time dealing with the illegal immigration problems across the border, there are plenty of people who overstay their visas and such and get lost in the country because they can't be followed up on due to not enough manpower.

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[Birry]

Trump makes me laugh with some of his hyperbole. He always touts "the greatest" this or "the highest" that in "the history of our country". Someone he hires is the best person ever in the history of people until he fires them 6 months later, then they were the worst liar in the history of the world. Okay maybe that part is a little of my hyperbole, but Trump does overstate things a bit.

Biggest understatement in the history of the universe.

 

[Rack]

it's not just an "American problem", so I'm not sure why everybody expects an American solution

you are 4.3 times more likely to be killed in a mass shooting in New Zealand. (for example)

the U.S. falls somewhere in the middle for 1st world countries. (not the top, nor the worst)

Cali, man...it's a problem...we live in America...so it's our issue. Please don't be the person who always picks a battle where there really isn't any. Not sure why you do this? I took a recess back when I was being triggered by everything on the board, maybe you should take a short break...no one is against you personally, just an on-line personality that takes issue with every post that people seem to make these days. Btw, for kicks what was the New Zealand level of mass shootings percentage prior to the 49 people killed at the Mosque? honestly just wondering if they ticked up quite a bit due to that.

 

[ramases2112]

And you just blamed trump in your previous post.

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I don't think it is unreasonable for us to expect Trump to ensure the person he is going to Retweet isn't tied to some extremist idea or message and spread their message and name across the entire globe with the touch of a finger...prior to actually doing it.

He has done this multiple times....I assume out of lack of complete information of what he is actually spreading and who he is drawing attention to in doing so

There are quite literally millions of people on twitter. He doesn't retweet anything racist or whatever you want to call it. I dont expect him to do some full background check to find out the inner workings of the person's mind. He sees a funny tweet and then retweets.

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[osupsycho]

Why in the hell are you guys talking about immigration in the Dayton Mass Shooting thread? I could somewhat understand it in the El Paso thread, but why here?

Really, you have been around here long enough to know that every thread will devolve back to the same craziness at some point no matter what it started out as.

 

[wrenhal]

Benman I don't always agree with you on things. But I do like to hear somebody that actually searches out things for themselves and finds information to make their decision and their choices rather than just being flippant and responsive with their emotions.
Unfortunately I have a child that is one of those flippant responsive emotional people and he won't listen to anything I say right now on this and it's mainly because of his friends. Sad part is I raised him to be smarter than that.

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15-18? I understand...

Yep. Crazy.

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[StillwaterTownie]

Ohio State rep Canice Keller took to Facebook after the Dayton shooter to say

View attachment 72181

He might as well advocate turning America into a Christian Theocracy.

 

[StillwaterTownie]

No, it's definitely not the answer...but I believe it to be a contributing factor.

Clearly, this guy had some severe mental health issues that were not addressed.

Interestingly enough, I saw an article that said less than 25% of mass shooters have been diagnosed with a mental health problem. The point of the article was to say that claiming we need better mental health care won't solve mass shootings. I think that is part of the problem...diagnosed means that an effort was made to take care of the person's mental health.

The main problem with shootings of this type is that there is no cure all to prevent them. Gun control won't stop them all, mental health care won't stop them all, and parenting won't stop them all.

We laccept that there has to be 40,000 deaths a year due to car accidents. It should be even easier to live with and accept that there are 14,000 gun deaths every year. The majority of those gun deaths are suicides and gang shootings. No law will fully end those.

 

[Rack]

He might as well advocate turning America into a Christian Theocracy.

Townie - He just stated some of the things he felt are morally and ethically wrong with America as being issues. Really quite an honest post and in a time gone by it wouldn't have lifted a single eyebrow. I don't actually agree that those are the MAIN reasons we are experiencing more of these things, but the fact we are no longer a homogeneous society in belief and religion as our diversity is ever increasing is likely a factor to be taken into consideration. When progressive cultural belief systems clash with long held traditional ones, violence is sometimes humanities response (I agree it's not a good nor a "Christian" response).

 

[CaliforniaCowboy]

Cali, man...it's a problem...we live in America...so it's our issue. Please don't be the person who always picks a battle where there really isn't any. Not sure why you do this? I took a recess back when I was being triggered by everything on the board, maybe you should take a short break...no one is against you personally, just an on-line personality that takes issue with every post that people seem to make these days. Btw, for kicks what was the New Zealand level of mass shootings percentage prior to the 49 people killed at the Mosque? honestly just wondering if they ticked up quite a bit due to that.

what do you mean "it is a problem"? What is a problem? Mental Health? (since they killed more in France running over them with a truck). You get to decide what the problems are, and also get to tell me what they aren't? Are you serious?

The New Zealand answer is prior to the recent 49 killed it was 1.2 times the US rate since their 1990 slaughter, and would still be slightly higher than the US even if you didn't count their 1990 slaughter either.

I'm not really doing anything but expressing facts. I take exception to people defining what is "my issue" or "our issue" simply because I live in America. I live in California, and we've already passed laws - no need for further oppression pushed upon us by the federal leviathan

There is no battle, unless and until some yahoo starts talking about federal legislation - where the federal government has no business.

 

[teachum]

This guy had a father around and was living with his mother and father. I'm not sure the presence of a father is the magic answer

Have we already quit blaming Marilyn Manson?

 

[teachum]

I love Mexico! I'm planning a trip next year to celebrate my 20th anniv with the wife.

FYI my experience in Mexico has been 1000% better than my experiences in Canada

Our Politics and Media seem to only be able to deal in Extremes ....we have become a culture of extremes..and when your political leaders and your media deals only in extremes....then you get a country divided along extreme ideals because this is all they are told is important.

One of my biggest issues with Trump. He thrives on and excels in talking extremes.

My biggest fear is he will lose an election to someone who embodies and embraces the extremes of the opposite side of the spectrum.....as those extremes embrace Socialism, population control for environment, gun confiscation and forced suburban living with assigned roles of the population.....and that is why Trump scares me the most.

That fear seems unfounded based on Joe Biden's poll dominance. The extremists on the left get a lot of press, but they are clearly not where the majority are. Biden is not a very good candidate, but he has name recognition and more importantly, a semblance of a return to normalcy, which I think a lot of people are craving.

 

[teachum]

Yeah but nobody is saying anything about those people not being allowed across the border since they come here legally.

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Well, one guy did.

 

[CocoCincinnati]

Let's take a quiz. Which is more likely to cause disturbed and/or evil individuals to act violently?

a. Telling them that they are entitled to more than they have.
b. Telling them we only have 12 years to act to save the planet.
c. Telling them that every problem in their life is someone else's fault.
d. Telling them that the president is a nazi who wants to take away their rights.
e. Telling them that ICE detention centers are concentration camps.
f. All of the above.

 

[wrenhal]

Yeah but nobody is saying anything about those people not being allowed across the border since they come here legally.

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Well, one guy did.

Who here has said that? Or are you talking about the El Paso shooter? If they are here legally most people have no problem. In fact many legal immigrants agree about securing the border.

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[bleedinorange]

Who here has said that? Or are you talking about the El Paso shooter? If they are here legally most people have no problem. In fact many legal immigrants agree about securing the border.

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He suffers from the Biden syndrome of preferring "truth over facts". Of course he's the sole arbiter of what the truth is.

 

[Bowers2]

Who here has said that? Or are you talking about the El Paso shooter? If they are here legally most people have no problem. In fact many legal immigrants agree about securing the border.

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There was a poster a few months back that said if he lived at the border, he'd shoot them as they came across.