Dayton, OH Mass Shooting Leaves 9 Dead 16 Injured Outside Bar

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Jostate

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#41
I think the problem is that you and so many are just focusing on the fear part of it. Statistically we should not fear any of these things as them affecting us personally is so low. But most politicians and media cannot let a good fear event pass them by so here we are. I do think all of the things you mention should be issues that we and the politicians we elect should look into but leave the fear politics out of it.
I agree with the statistical approach to this. I always have to remind my wife of how many schools AREN'T shot up every day just for perspective. On the other hand people like myself don't worry so much about the greater number of murders that occur in rougher parts of big cities because we aren't in gangs or hanging out in such dangerous areas whereas we do go to Walmart or movies.
 

Binman4OSU

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#42
I agree with the statistical approach to this. I always have to remind my wife of how many schools AREN'T shot up every day just for perspective. On the other hand people like myself don't worry so much about the greater number of murders that occur in rougher parts of big cities because we aren't in gangs or hanging out in such dangerous areas whereas we do go to Walmart or movies.
We as a country do the same thing with immigration from Mexico. Aprox 900,000 Mexican citizens travel across our border as visitors and legally within the US and spend ~$25 Million per month and return home every month...month after month...after month
 

ramases2112

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#43
Oh, I know it's not political, everyone in Twitter and Facebook are screaming about racist trump and these make white supremacist kids.... They make no distinction between the 2 shooters. 1 person tried to say there have been "dozens" of mass shootings under trump and they were all white male racist terrorists.

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Trump just blamed the Media
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1158340095608610816?s=19
And you just blamed trump in your previous post.

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CocoCincinnati

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#44
The El Paso killer provided a detailed Manifesto to his exact thinking and extremist ideas with multiple mentions in it to the POTUS in several different context. The MSM is going to spend weeks pouring through it line by line.

I'm betting the Ohio guy would get the same attention if he had left one. Had he put out an "All Hail Bernie Sanders" document...it would be treated just the same
Oh come on, we all know the reason these two are being covered different by the media. And they will continue to be covered different going forward.
 

Jostate

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#45
We as a country do the same thing with immigration from Mexico. Aprox 900,000 Mexican citizens travel across our border as visitors and legally within the US and spend ~$25 Million per month and return home every month...month after month...after month
I think that's worth remembering, and most rational people aren't anti immigrant, but it's fair to have enough control over the border to know who is coming and going and have some say so in who we want to keep out.

Ellis Island worked well for many years and people didn't have problems with the inefficiencies or unfairness that may have taken place because we had a big pond forcing everyone to go through the process. If we could control who enters the country, or at least know who they are, it wouldn't have to mean the end of immigration, which our economy has always relied on for a cheap source of labor.
 

Binman4OSU

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#46
And you just blamed trump in your previous post.

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I don't think it is unreasonable for us to expect Trump to ensure the person he is going to Retweet isn't tied to some extremist idea or message and spread their message and name across the entire globe with the touch of a finger...prior to actually doing it.

He has done this multiple times....I assume out of lack of complete information of what he is actually spreading and who he is drawing attention to in doing so
 

Rack

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#47
We as a country do the same thing with immigration from Mexico. Aprox 900,000 Mexican citizens travel across our border as visitors and legally within the US and spend ~$25 Million per month and return home every month...month after month...after month
Obviously many Americans do the same thing in Mexico, over 40 million US citizens visited Mexico in 2018. Mexico is wonderful country with beautiful family people and if you haven't been for one, you need to go for a visit. So much culture and wonderful hospitality.

They are our neighbor and we need to love them and treat them well. Of course that doesn't mean that we should allow a mass illegal migration through our boarder with them to go unchecked...it just means we need to treat them with the dignity they deserve as fellow created beings and make a sound effort to make it easier for folks doing so by legal means while making it harder for those doing it illegally. I weep for the Mexican and American families who lost souls in El Paso, just as I do for those in Ohio.

The politicking of this is sick and the media and politicians on both sides are to blame for furthering, fostering, and even "glorifying" this. This sickness is deep and it's a sickness that doesn't seem to heal but only to get worse over time. It's really sad for the United States of America that we are so divided in a time of so much prosperity and plenty. It's really sad that our politicians for decades have only seemed to stoke those fires of division rather than quench them. One would hope that tragic events like these would solidify our countries unity but they only seem to divide it more.
 

Binman4OSU

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#48
I think that's worth remembering, and most rational people aren't anti immigrant, but it's fair to have enough control over the border to know who is coming and going and have some say so in who we want to keep out.
And 178,000 foreign nationals enter the US every single day and we have control over them and know who they are and have given them permission to do so. Statistically we have pretty good control over our border, but it could always be better.
 

osupsycho

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#49
I think that's worth remembering, and most rational people aren't anti immigrant, but it's fair to have enough control over the border to know who is coming and going and have some say so in who we want to keep out.

Ellis Island worked well for many years and people didn't have problems with the inefficiencies or unfairness that may have taken place because we had a big pond forcing everyone to go through the process. If we could control who enters the country, or at least know who they are, it wouldn't have to mean the end of immigration, which our economy has always relied on for a cheap source of labor.
Of course the numbers are also an issue. Ellis Island was open for 62 years and processed around 12 million immigrants during that time. The biggest years had around a million coming in. As of June there were over 600k illegal immigrants apprehended at the southern border this year. That is just the ones who were caught as I am sure a larger number than that did not get caught. Thus the mass of immigrants now is likely MUCH higher than Ellis Island ever handled.
 

Binman4OSU

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#50
Obviously many Americans do the same thing in Mexico, over 40 million US citizens visited Mexico in 2018. Mexico is wonderful country with beautiful family people and if you haven't been for one, you need to go for a visit. So much culture and wonderful hospitality.

They are our neighbor and we need to love them and treat them well. Of course that doesn't mean that we should allow a mass illegal migration through our boarder with them to go unchecked...it just means we need to treat them with the dignity they deserve as fellow created beings and make a sound effort to make it easier for folks doing so by legal means while making it harder for those doing it illegally. I weep for the Mexican and American families who lost souls in El Paso, just as I do for those in Ohio.

The politicking of this is sick and the media and politicians on both sides are to blame for furthering, fostering, and even "glorifying" this. This sickness is deep and it's a sickness that doesn't seem to heal but only to get worse over time. It's really sad for the United States of America that we are so divided in a time of so much prosperity and plenty. It's really sad that our politicians for decades have only seemed to stoke those fires of division rather than quench them. One would hope that tragic events like these would solidify our countries unity but they only seem to divide it more.
I love Mexico! I'm planning a trip next year to celebrate my 20th anniv with the wife.

FYI my experience in Mexico has been 1000% better than my experiences in Canada

Our Politics and Media seem to only be able to deal in Extremes ....we have become a culture of extremes..and when your political leaders and your media deals only in extremes....then you get a country divided along extreme ideals because this is all they are told is important.

One of my biggest issues with Trump. He thrives on and excels in talking extremes.

My biggest fear is he will lose an election to someone who embodies and embraces the extremes of the opposite side of the spectrum.....as those extremes embrace Socialism, population control for environment, gun confiscation and forced suburban living with assigned roles of the population.....and that is why Trump scares me the most.
 
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wrenhal

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#51
Dayton shooter was a registered democrat who self identified as a "leftist" socialist and shot his sister and her boyfriend.
Sounds like a white supremacist to me. *eyeroll*

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Source?
It's in several articles online, read it at least three or four times. Including one showed an election board sheet showing his registration.

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Donnyboy

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#52
Oh come on, we all know the reason these two are being covered different by the media. And they will continue to be covered different going forward.
Actually the MSM has backed off the trump angle some due to the manifesto stating he wasn't rep or dem and also had hatred of corporations and environmental policies. The ones beating the this is Trump's fault the loudest are dem presidential candidates trying to get attention.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

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#53
Of course the numbers are also an issue. Ellis Island was open for 62 years and processed around 12 million immigrants during that time. The biggest years had around a million coming in. As of June there were over 600k illegal immigrants apprehended at the southern border this year. That is just the ones who were caught as I am sure a larger number than that did not get caught. Thus the mass of immigrants now is likely MUCH higher than Ellis Island ever handled.
and Ellis Island was largely pre airplanes....

our immigration today does not work for many, many reasons, some of which is the US placing "trust" in the vetting process of people applying for VISA's, and our inability to track them and deport them once they overstay.
 

wrenhal

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#54
Several of his high school class mates have said he was kicked out of school because he made a Rape/Kill list.
I've read that he had his sisters name on his Rape List
Now that's interesting, none of the ones I read listed anybody who was on it. I did hear mention that it was not just only a rape list but a rape, kill, and skin list.

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Jostate

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#55
One of my biggest issues with Trump. He thrives on and excels in talking extremes.

.
Trump makes me laugh with some of his hyperbole. He always touts "the greatest" this or "the highest" that in "the history of our country". Someone he hires is the best person ever in the history of people until he fires them 6 months later, then they were the worst liar in the history of the world. Okay maybe that part is a little of my hyperbole, but Trump does overstate things a bit.
 

CowboyOrangeFan

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#56
Why in the hell are you guys talking about immigration in the Dayton Mass Shooting thread? I could somewhat understand it in the El Paso thread, but why here?
 

CocoCincinnati

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#57
Actually the MSM has backed off the trump angle some due to the manifesto stating he wasn't rep or dem and also had hatred of corporations and environmental policies. The ones beating the this is Trump's fault the loudest are dem presidential candidates trying to get attention.
Well that's not surprising if true...if the first guy has any left leanings at all, the coverage will wane. Yes the Dem candidates are the ones making the most noise...sadly to be expected I guess.
 

wrenhal

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#58
He actually had more social media directly attributed to his name. He specifically said to “vote blue” and that he backed “Elizabeth Warren”.
Let’s not pretend why one is getting more press than the other. One supports a narrative and one does not. This is what should sicken everyone about our media. Ideology is more important for some in the MSM than reporting the news.
I don't watch much of any National News but tried to watch MSNBC, CNN, and Fox News this weekend switching back and forth to try to hear the different tones and messages being presented.
CNN interviewing the Mayor of El Paso trying to get him to talk about his stance on gun control and immigration law
MSNBC was talking about how powerful the NRA had become
Fox News was showing a live interview with Navy Seals who swam across The Hudson River

Everyone of them so far off base of the real conversation that needs to take place and the REAL News story that should be pushed.....the lack of mental health facilities and programs in this country.
Benman I don't always agree with you on things. But I do like to hear somebody that actually searches out things for themselves and finds information to make their decision and their choices rather than just being flippant and responsive with their emotions.
Unfortunately I have a child that is one of those flippant responsive emotional people and he won't listen to anything I say right now on this and it's mainly because of his friends. Sad part is I raised him to be smarter than that.

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wrenhal

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#59
To be honest people bandy about the words racist and sexist and other derogatory terms to mean "shut up your opinion doesn't matter". It doesn't help that the mainstream media encourages this and perpetuates it. So yeah, between that and the way they glorify the shooters, yeah they are partially responsible.

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Does the media really encourage it ? You saw the responses to the McConnell tweet about him fractureing his shoulder.....I don't think they necessarily encourage it...so much as just report the reality of the American peoples responses

Within seconds of these two shootings Americans were all over Twitter saying some of the most vile and crazy shit you can imagine...if that is the realistic vile response of Americans within minutes of these types of events....is the media not just reporting on that reality?
Some journalists are the ones making vile comments on Twitter and other social media. So yeah they are part of the problem along with Hollywood types that believe they're morally Superior as well.

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Rack

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#60
I love Mexico! I'm planning a trip next year to celebrate my 20th anniv with the wife.

FYI my experience in Mexico has been 1000% better than my experiences in Canada

Our Politics and Media seem to only be able to deal in Extremes ....we have become a culture of extremes..and when your political leaders and your media deals only in extremes....then you get a country divided along extreme ideals because this is all they are told is important.

One of my biggest issues with Trump. He thrives on and excels in talking extremes.

My biggest fear is he will lose an election to someone who embodies and embraces the extremes of the opposite side of the spectrum.....as those extremes embrace Socialism, population control for environment, gun confiscation and forced suburban living with assigned roles of the population.....and that is why Trump scares me the most.
That makes sense...I just don't think it's a time for political discussion when these things happen again and again but one of our shared humanity. Yet we are programed by politicians and the media to go right to political outrage or political solutions for problems that are deeper than anything politics can fix. It's a sickness in America of division and blame...yet few want to really lode the blame on the perp, just the environment that the perp is raised / educated in. I'm honestly not sure it's fixable without major societal change to be considerate of others rights and life as just as high as our own. For me that's faith, but for those who don't share my faith, I'm just not sure of their answer. My hope is that they find a faith of self denial and others first and move their spirit in it's direction.