Credit for POTUS from a never Trumper

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Nov 6, 2010
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#1
I've been pretty vocal regarding my feelings towards Trump's fitness for office, and I'll maintain that he is unfit and possibly mentally ill, and hope Biden wins this time around. However, in an effort to balance that opinion with those who dismiss it as TDS, like @Bay Area Poke and others, I thought I'd take the time to post an article I found that I agree with that is pro Trump, or at least his recent decision with regards to troop deployment in Germany. There is a lot of gnashing of teeth about this move from the old guard, but I just don't see how it doesn't make sense. Sure it can be argued that it benefits Russia, but I just can't imagine any scenario where Russian tanks roll across Germany or even Poland, where these troops would make any difference.

Thoughts?

https://spectator.us/trump-troops-move-21st-century-strategy-germany/
 

NotOnTV

BRB -- Taking an okie leak
Sep 14, 2010
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#2
I've been pretty vocal regarding my feelings towards Trump's fitness for office, and I'll maintain that he is unfit and possibly mentally ill, and hope Biden wins this time around. However, in an effort to balance that opinion with those who dismiss it as TDS, like @Bay Area Poke and others, I thought I'd take the time to post an article I found that I agree with that is pro Trump, or at least his recent decision with regards to troop deployment in Germany. There is a lot of gnashing of teeth about this move from the old guard, but I just don't see how it doesn't make sense. Sure it can be argued that it benefits Russia, but I just can't imagine any scenario where Russian tanks roll across Germany or even Poland, where these troops would make any difference.

Thoughts?

https://spectator.us/trump-troops-move-21st-century-strategy-germany/
I'll vote for a slightly demented businessman with four years of experience over a dementia-addled career politician. Kudos for giving credit where it's due, but Trump has been trying to scale back our foreign entanglements since day one. The people he trusted who proved to be the biggest roadblocks seem to be out of the way now, so glad to see things are progressing in that regard.
 

GodsPeace

Joshua 1:9
Aug 20, 2004
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#3
I wonder if they thought tanks would roll in 1914 or 1939? Not saying we should stay, but there is always a way. This world is full of crazy wars.
 

Birry

Federal Marshal
Feb 6, 2007
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#4
I wonder if they thought tanks would roll in 1914 or 1939? Not saying we should stay, but there is always a way. This world is full of crazy wars.
Irrelevant. It's not our job to occupy foreign soil with our military to ensure "crazy wars" don't happen. We need to begin moving towards a defense-only force ASAP and start putting those billions (trillions?) towards paying for pandemics, education, infrastructure, cyber warfare, etc.....
 

GodsPeace

Joshua 1:9
Aug 20, 2004
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#5
Irrelevant. It's not our job to occupy foreign soil with our military to ensure "crazy wars" don't happen. We need to begin moving towards a defense-only force ASAP and start putting those billions (trillions?) towards paying for pandemics, education, infrastructure, cyber warfare, etc.....
There is nothing irrelevant about it. I didn't suggest we need troops. I was talking about the inevitability of war. It is a reality of human history. Whether the USA is involved or not.
 
Nov 6, 2010
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#6
I'll vote for a slightly demented businessman with four years of experience over a dementia-addled career politician. Kudos for giving credit where it's due, but Trump has been trying to scale back our foreign entanglements since day one. The people he trusted who proved to be the biggest roadblocks seem to be out of the way now, so glad to see things are progressing in that regard.
Yea, the old adage of generals fighting the last war seems to apply here. I am concerned about our general withdrawal from the "world stage", whatever that means. If you look at historic empires, that is where the demise tends to start. But the world is not controlled the way it used to be, companies like Google and Facebook are proving that. I have zero faith in Trump to recognize any of these shifts, and more importantly, I fear his inability to recognize his own limitations. That coupled with his petty vindictiveness scares me. He has already removed a lot of experience from the state dept just because of his need for loyalty. It may seem insignificant in the short term, but getting rid of people like Vindman may have repercussions down the road. I mean, how many Ukranian born officers do we have?
 

Jostate

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Jun 24, 2005
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#7
I'm turning into quite a noninterventionalist. From what I heard though he didn't bring them home but just moved them to other countries.

But I'm afraid there's no room for wavering. From what I'm told either you have to love Trump or hate him. If you go back and forth at all you are lumped in with the love him crowd which is not admitted in polite company and will get you sent to HR if you mention it at work.
 
Nov 6, 2010
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#8
I'm turning into quite a noninterventionalist. From what I heard though he didn't bring them home but just moved them to other countries.

But I'm afraid there's no room for wavering. From what I'm told either you have to love Trump or hate him. If you go back and forth at all you are lumped in with the love him crowd which is not admitted in polite company and will get you sent to HR if you mention it at work.
Which is why I'm trying to point out this specific policy. The heat can be turned down if we choose to do so.
 

NotOnTV

BRB -- Taking an okie leak
Sep 14, 2010
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#9
I'm turning into quite a noninterventionalist. From what I heard though he didn't bring them home but just moved them to other countries.

But I'm afraid there's no room for wavering. From what I'm told either you have to love Trump or hate him. If you go back and forth at all you are lumped in with the love him crowd which is not admitted in polite company and will get you sent to HR if you mention it at work.
Funny you should mention that. I work at one of the most virulently left-wing tech companies you can imagine. So much so that employees are constantly virtue-signaling (see what I did there?) their hatred for POTUS in Slack and other forums. They are so left-wing that we have trouble staffing certain customers, like McKinsey and Chik-Fil-a, because of the rampant "social conscience" of the employee base. Talk about the inmates running the asylum!

I'm right at two years from planned retirement, and you can bet when it gets close to that time I'm going to be doling out some serious ridicule on the Slack channels and Town Halls. Sorry for derailing.
 
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Jostate

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Jun 24, 2005
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#10
Funny you should mention that. I work at one of the most virulently left-wing tech companies you can imagine. So much so that employees are constantly virtue-signaling (see what I did there?) their hatred for POTUS in Slack and other forums. They are so left-wing that we have trouble staffing certain customers, like McKinsey and Chik-Fil-a, because of the rampant "social conscience" of the employee base. Talk about the inmates running the asylum!

I'm right at two years from planned retirement, and you can bet when it gets close to that time I'm going to be doling out some serious ridicule on the Slack channels and Town Halls. Sorry for derailing.
Even if you aren't a Trump guy, if it were me approaching retirement I would wear a MAGA hat shirt and red pants. I'd be the MAGA version of Mr. Orange Power just to see heads explode.
 

Jostate

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Jun 24, 2005
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#11
I wonder if they thought tanks would roll in 1914 or 1939? Not saying we should stay, but there is always a way. This world is full of crazy wars.
To say it's a different world is an understatement. Nobody is invading Germany.

If some military action did go down everything moves so fast now we could respond pretty quickly. This isn't fighting the last war, this is fighting 4 or 5 wars and almost a century ago.
 

GodsPeace

Joshua 1:9
Aug 20, 2004
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#12
To say it's a different world is an understatement. Nobody is invading Germany.

If some military action did go down everything moves so fast now we could respond pretty quickly. This isn't fighting the last war, this is fighting 4 or 5 wars and almost a century ago.
My point wasn't that tanks were rolling, but rather that people tend to get complacent about the potential threats of war. History is full of them. I wasn't arguing to stay in Germany, or Japan, or Korea, or anywhere else. It's more about the sense that things are safe as they are. I don't believe they are necessarily regardless of US involvement.
 

OSU79

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Oct 22, 2009
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#13
I wonder if they thought tanks would roll in 1914 or 1939? Not saying we should stay, but there is always a way. This world is full of crazy wars.
Keep in mind I agree with @teachum on almost nothing, but his comment was that any troops withdrawn wouldn't make a difference if tanks rolled across Germany or Poland. I believe he is correct in this case. Troop withdrawal may make poor optics, but its unlikely it makes any tactical difference.
 

Jostate

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Jun 24, 2005
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#14
My point wasn't that tanks were rolling, but rather that people tend to get complacent about the potential threats of war. History is full of them. I wasn't arguing to stay in Germany, or Japan, or Korea, or anywhere else. It's more about the sense that things are safe as they are. I don't believe they are necessarily regardless of US involvement.
History has many examples to support your side of this thing, but I'm at the point where I'm thinking of what could be done with all that money spent with troops around the world. We keep many countries around the world safe, but their citizens don't know it or appreciate it. I'd like to see what happens if we brought most of them home.
 

GodsPeace

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Aug 20, 2004
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#15
History has many examples to support your side of this thing, but I'm at the point where I'm thinking of what could be done with all that money spent with troops around the world. We keep many countries around the world safe, but their citizens don't know it or appreciate it. I'd like to see what happens if we brought most of them home.
I agree, but the cost of bringing them home I saw somewhere estimated pretty high.

Bring them home. I don't know which is better tbh.
 

Deere Poke

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Feb 13, 2014
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#16
Keep in mind I agree with @teachum on almost nothing, but his comment was that any troops withdrawn wouldn't make a difference if tanks rolled across Germany or Poland. I believe he is correct in this case. Troop withdrawal may make poor optics, but its unlikely it makes any tactical difference.
As long as the Air force is staying that will keep tanks from rolling.
 
May 31, 2007
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#18
I've been pretty vocal regarding my feelings towards Trump's fitness for office, and I'll maintain that he is unfit and possibly mentally ill, and hope Biden wins this time around. However, in an effort to balance that opinion with those who dismiss it as TDS, like @Bay Area Poke and others, I thought I'd take the time to post an article I found that I agree with that is pro Trump, or at least his recent decision with regards to troop deployment in Germany. There is a lot of gnashing of teeth about this move from the old guard, but I just don't see how it doesn't make sense. Sure it can be argued that it benefits Russia, but I just can't imagine any scenario where Russian tanks roll across Germany or even Poland, where these troops would make any difference.

Thoughts?

https://spectator.us/trump-troops-move-21st-century-strategy-germany/
You want to distance yourself from TDS and at the same time say Trump may be mentally ill? There’s plenty to criticize Trump for but it’s utterly ridiculous to say he’s mentally ill. If you truly believe that, then yes you have TDS. And if mental capacity is an issue you should clearly be voting for Trump over Biden. Biden in his heyday was a sharp pol but clearly he is having cognitive issues that I’m sure are only going to worsen with time and I find it very sad tbh.
 

StillwaterTownie

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Jun 18, 2010
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#20
I'll vote for a slightly demented businessman with four years of experience over a dementia-addled career politician. Kudos for giving credit where it's due, but Trump has been trying to scale back our foreign entanglements since day one. The people he trusted who proved to be the biggest roadblocks seem to be out of the way now, so glad to see things are progressing in that regard.
And, no doubt, you also much, much prefer keeping the president who goofed off, while the National Anthem played on. At least his wife, who wasn't even born in this country, kept her hand on her heart. I bet she was embarrassed. But what Trump did is totally irrelevant to you. Right?