Covid-19

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oks10

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I can see this working in some offices, for sure. And it can kinda work in our office. But depending on the position in the company, the type of work you do, etc.... that space can need different things. Our line of work is also HIGHLY unpredictable, so trying to schedule anything on a weekly basis is extremely difficult.

I actually think shared spaces like you're describing could work, but it wouldn't be exactly as you described. Our offices have traditionally been setup to accommodate 36x48 drawing sets, so you're talking really big desk spaces all over the place. It's becoming more and more rare to flip through a physical set of drawings these days, and most of us utilize smaller (18x24 or 11x17) drawing sets in everyday work. So desk spaces, drafting tables, etc...are currently kinda oversized. We would probably do better to create some large shared spaces capable of flipping through huge drawing sets, but each imployee desk could theoretically shrink. If combined that with an upgrade to our presentation equipment in conference rooms, then I think you could theoretically shrink the total SF of the office by 10-20%, and still maintain all the current functions.
Work stations have been brought up at our office when it became clear that our WFH wasn't going to be over in just a couple weeks. We own the building we're in though and have empty offices even when everyone is present, so I don't really see anything that would cause us to have to consolidate down into a shared work space. I don't see us growing our headcount in the office at least in the foreseeable future either. I would definitely expect to see more companies that rent office space reduce the amount of space they're renting and switching to shared work stations with people primarily working from home. As much as I would like to not have to go back in the office any more than I have to, I also have a pretty nice office that I don't want to give up when I AM there... lol. When this is all over I'd like to see something like a 3 days from home/2 days in office type setup. Me having a dedicated space at home with a 3 monitor setup (including laptop) has really made it easy to get just as much done at home than I was in the office, even with wife and kid home. I just close the door to our study then it's just me working with my pet rabbit chilling in his run behind me. :D
 

RxCowboy

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We also have over 7 times the population of Spain. Even with that, they have experienced over 100 more deaths per million in population than we have.
Oh, sure, they got hammered early. The population of New York and New Jersey is roughly 30 million which is comparable to Spain's 46 million, so let's take a look:

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Looking at that deaths per million pop... uh...

Most of our states haven't reached or are just reaching peaks. If you want to compare like peak to like peak then this is a good comparison.
 
Jan 14, 2006
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Oh, sure, they got hammered early. The population of New York and New Jersey is roughly 30 million which is comparable to Spain's 46 million, so let's take a look:

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Looking at that deaths per million pop... uh...

Most of our states haven't reached or are just reaching peaks. If you want to compare like peak to like peak then this is a good comparison.
That's BS and you know it.

The reason NY and NJ deaths are so high is because they sent infected people back to nursing homes early in the pandemic.

While we haven't figured out as much as I expected about the virus, we have learned that its nearly harmless to young, healthy populations and devastating to older, sick populations.

The spikes in positive tests won't lead to the same spikes in deaths because the new positives are from healthy and asymptomatic people and we are doing a much better job protecting our vulnerable populations.
 

TheMonkey

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That's BS and you know it.

The reason NY and NJ deaths are so high is because they sent infected people back to nursing homes early in the pandemic.

While we haven't figured out as much as I expected about the virus, we have learned that its nearly harmless to young, healthy populations and devastating to older, sick populations.

The spikes in positive tests won't lead to the same spikes in deaths because the new positives are from healthy and asymptomatic people and we are doing a much better job protecting our vulnerable populations.
Seems oversimplified to me. Qualify “young.” Qualify “healthy.” The last statistic I saw on the US population at risk placed it at 40% of our population. So, what would that be, 140 million?

Has there been new data released on this?
 
Jan 14, 2006
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Seems oversimplified to me. Qualify “young.” Qualify “healthy.” The last statistic I saw on the US population at risk placed it at 40% of our population. So, what would that be, 140 million?

Has there been new data released on this?
40% of Americans are obese. I would qualify them as un"healthy" and "at risk" for a number of illnesses.

You know exactly what I'm saying. While its somewhat anecdotal, I know at least 20 people who've tested positive or had antibodies and only one said it compared to the flu. Most had no symptoms. Admittedly anecdotal, but its real people I know, not stats fed to me by the media.

Keep pushing that fear!
 

TheMonkey

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40% of Americans are obese. I would qualify them as un"healthy" and "at risk" for a number of illnesses.

You know exactly what I'm saying. While its somewhat anecdotal, I know at least 20 people who've tested positive or had antibodies and only one said it compared to the flu. Most had no symptoms. Admittedly anecdotal, but its real people I know, not stats fed to me by the media.

Keep pushing that fear!
I know exactly what you’re saying: this is no big deal. It’s the same as the flu. It’s a hoax.

All of which is wrong.

I also don’t prescribe to the sky falling, or we are all gonna die if we don’t lockdown the country. I agree that some of the media are spreading fear in order to get viewership. I’m not pushing it. I don’t even watch it. But I am watching trends and paying attention to real doctors who are fighting this.

This is not the flu. But it’s also not the end of the world. Let’s be responsible while not letting fear rule our hearts and minds.
 
Jan 14, 2006
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I know exactly what you’re saying: this is no big deal. It’s the same as the flu. It’s a hoax.

All of which is wrong.

I also don’t prescribe to the sky falling, or we are all gonna die if we don’t lockdown the country. I agree that some of the media are spreading fear in order to get viewership. I’m not pushing it. I don’t even watch it. But I am watching trends and paying attention to real doctors who are fighting this.

This is not the flu. But it’s also not the end of the world. Let’s be responsible while not letting fear rule our hearts and minds.
You clearly misread me then.

A. I don't think its a hoax.

2nd. I don't think it's like the flu. I think its much worse than the flu if you are elderly or obese and much less than the flu if you are young and healthy. The data supports these assertions.

D. I agree with everything you said after that, so that's actually pretty cool. I wear a mask, wash my hands and everything. But my kids cried when they found out they couldn't go to school and I'm much more concerned about the piss poor online learning experience and their mental well being than I am them being susceptible to coronavirus. I don't think that's unreasonable.

And comparing other countries to the disaster that was NY and NJ's response is still silly.

Go Pokes!
 

TheMonkey

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You clearly misread me then.

A. I don't think its a hoax.

2nd. I don't think it's like the flu. I think its much worse than the flu if you are elderly or obese and much less than the flu if you are young and healthy. The data supports these assertions.

D. I agree with everything you said after that, so that's actually pretty cool. I wear a mask, wash my hands and everything. But my kids cried when they found out they couldn't go to school and I'm much more concerned about the piss poor online learning experience and their mental well being than I am them being susceptible to coronavirus. I don't think that's unreasonable.

And comparing other countries to the disaster that was NY and NJ's response is still silly.

Go Pokes!
OK. It was a hyperbolic misrepresentation at the least on my part.

We’re probably not way off. I think the sticky point is your bifurcation of risk. I don’t think it is so clean cut. I have seen multiple reports from medical professionals and victims family members that this is striking young, otherwise healthy individuals in life-threatening ways. Maybe not in huge numbers, but it is happening. Also, the risk of spreading this at school is obviously beyond the kids themselves. School staff and faculty are at risk and so are the at-risk groups these students go home to.

I hope we can find solutions to get kids back in school, but I don’t think we’re prepared. I have a senior and a freshman in high school. The senior wants to go back. The freshman has Lyme Disease and needs to do remote per our physician. We’re watching this really closely to see how we can make that work. It’s not black and white. There’s no manual for this. And I know there are folks with much bigger problems than ours.

Oh, and... Go Pokes!
 
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cowboyinexile

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You clearly misread me then.

A. I don't think its a hoax.

2nd. I don't think it's like the flu. I think its much worse than the flu if you are elderly or obese and much less than the flu if you are young and healthy. The data supports these assertions.

D. I agree with everything you said after that, so that's actually pretty cool. I wear a mask, wash my hands and everything. But my kids cried when they found out they couldn't go to school and I'm much more concerned about the piss poor online learning experience and their mental well being than I am them being susceptible to coronavirus. I don't think that's unreasonable.

And comparing other countries to the disaster that was NY and NJ's response is still silly.

Go Pokes!
On your 2nd point, I don't think that's consistent. We can all agree if you're 60+ this is scary and 20 years older than that it's damn scary. But for the younger crowd the rate of infection is a problem. Obviously young and healthy really helps but when were talking about something that can knock you on your butt to the point where you have a 5-10% chance of being hospitalized regardless of your health status that's a big deal. Plus we don't really know the long term implications of getting it. My personal opinion is for the people my age (40) it's going to kill more of us in the next 10 years than it will in the next 12 months. Lung and heart transplants aren't easy to come by now and for the next generation or so it's going to be impossible.

Also,

 
Jan 14, 2006
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On your 2nd point, I don't think that's consistent. We can all agree if you're 60+ this is scary and 20 years older than that it's damn scary. But for the younger crowd the rate of infection is a problem. Obviously young and healthy really helps but when were talking about something that can knock you on your butt to the point where you have a 5-10% chance of being hospitalized regardless of your health status that's a big deal. Plus we don't really know the long term implications of getting it. My personal opinion is for the people my age (40) it's going to kill more of us in the next 10 years than it will in the next 12 months. Lung and heart transplants aren't easy to come by now and for the next generation or so it's going to be impossible.

Also,

Good discussion. Obviously we're not going to agree on everything. I'm over 40 and not the least bit scared of it for me or my kids. Maybe I'm wrong, but like I said, I've got friends older than me and in worse shape, that shook it off like it was nothing. But I will absolutely take precautions to avoid infecting someone in a high risk category.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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Good discussion. Obviously we're not going to agree on everything. I'm over 40 and not the least bit scared of it for me or my kids. Maybe I'm wrong, but like I said, I've got friends older than me and in worse shape, that shook it off like it was nothing. But I will absolutely take precautions to avoid infecting someone in a high risk category.
I am like you. Over 40 and I am not scared for me, my wife, or kids. It is important to take precautions, but I am still surprised how the parents are still scared.

My wife has talked to a couple of parents that are very reluctant to send their child to school (Those parents are definitely in the minority at her school. Most parents want to return to in person). She talked to one parent that is having their son do virtual school because the parent was afraid that other kids wouldn’t always wear a mask.

Coronavirus is definitely overall much much worse than the flu. But we also have to acknowledge that the coronavirus while exponentially worse for the elderly is not worse for school age children. California stats report 51k confirmed coronavirus cases for school-age children and, thankfully, only one death. For every 50k flu cases for school-age children, the CDC reported 4.6 deaths (using 2018 data).
 

StillwaterTownie

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I am like you. Over 40 and I am not scared for me, my wife, or kids. It is important to take precautions, but I am still surprised how the parents are still scared.

My wife has talked to a couple of parents that are very reluctant to send their child to school (Those parents are definitely in the minority at her school. Most parents want to return to in person). She talked to one parent that is having their son do virtual school because the parent was afraid that other kids wouldn’t always wear a mask.

Coronavirus is definitely overall much much worse than the flu. But we also have to acknowledge that the coronavirus while exponentially worse for the elderly is not worse for school age children. California stats report 51k confirmed coronavirus cases for school-age children and, thankfully, only one death. For every 50k flu cases for school-age children, the CDC reported 4.6 deaths (using 2018 data).
I am definately scared myself, over 40, since I don't know how bad the virus will be if I contract it, whether from having no symptoms to death in the ICU.
 

PF5

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The biggest thing for me (besides the obvious - death) is what is the long term effects of this. Someone I know got it and his biggest symptom was massive headaches, and still gets headaches (much smaller ones) to this day (2+ months).
 

StillwaterTownie

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The biggest thing for me (besides the obvious - death) is what is the long term effects of this. Someone I know got it and his biggest symptom was massive headaches, and still gets headaches (much smaller ones) to this day (2+ months).
As yet we do not know the long term effects even in those without symptoms. We only are beginnig to understand the acute not the chronic effects on various parts of the body. Other viruses are known to
remain in our body for years after their symptoms are long gone only to pop up later.
 

RxCowboy

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That's BS and you know it.

The reason NY and NJ deaths are so high is because they sent infected people back to nursing homes early in the pandemic.

While we haven't figured out as much as I expected about the virus, we have learned that its nearly harmless to young, healthy populations and devastating to older, sick populations.

The spikes in positive tests won't lead to the same spikes in deaths because the new positives are from healthy and asymptomatic people and we are doing a much better job protecting our vulnerable populations.
How many people were actually sent back to nursing homes?

No, I'm sorry, but that doesn't come close to explaining everything that happened in New York.

So, you don't think we've gotten better at treating it and that has had an impact on outcomes?
 
Jan 14, 2006
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How many people were actually sent back to nursing homes?

No, I'm sorry, but that doesn't come close to explaining everything that happened in New York.

So, you don't think we've gotten better at treating it and that has had an impact on outcomes?
Here you go.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/ap-count-4300-virus-patients-ny-nursing-homes-70825470

I'll give you your third point, we've almost certainly gotten better at treating it. Which also further invalidates your NY spike comparison.
 
Mar 11, 2006
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How many people were actually sent back to nursing homes?

No, I'm sorry, but that doesn't come close to explaining everything that happened in New York.

So, you don't think we've gotten better at treating it and that has had an impact on outcomes?
I hope we have gotten better treating it. But have our flu deaths per season dramatically improved over last couple of years?

Certainly improvements in treating has some impact. But correlation appears to be mostly due to age. Early in pandemic many were saying young people were less likely to get the virus. Now we know that is not the case.
The percentage of cases under 35 years of age has grown since last May. For example, CA had 29k cases of people under 18 at end of June (3 1/2 months of pandemic). The case load for that age group has almost grown by same amount in July (one month). However, deaths per reported cases has dropped.