Covid-19

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TheMonkey

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Yeah, it's classic shifting the burden of proof - "you can't find proof it doesn't work". But that isn't the way that drug studies work. For every other drug and combination of drugs on the planet the burden of proof for efficacy and safety is on the drug.

There are trials under way that should answer the question of efficacy and safety, though not likely to the HCQ-zealots satisfaction. From clinicaltrials.gov:

A Study of Quintuple Therapy to Treat COVID-19 Infection (HAZDpaC)
Drug: Hydroxychloroquine
Drug: Azithromycin
Dietary Supplement: Vitamin C
Dietary Supplement: Vitamin D
Dietary Supplement: Zinc

Hydroxychloroquine and Zinc With Either Azithromycin or Doxycycline for Treatment of COVID-19 in Outpatient Setting
Drug: Hydroxychloroquine
Drug: Azithromycin
Drug: Zinc Sulfate
Drug: Doxycycline
I can’t remember where I read it, but I have seen where some have stated HCQ treatment is a catch-22. If you use it too early, a patient may not have needed it and the side effects are worse than the actual effects of the disease. But if you wait until you know someone needs it, then it is too late for the drug to be effective.
 

cowboyinexile

Have some class
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I can’t remember where I read it, but I have seen where some have stated HCQ treatment is a catch-22. If you use it too early, a patient may not have needed it and the side effects are worse than the actual effects of the disease. But if you wait until you know someone needs it, then it is too late for the drug to be effective.
That's the weird thing about that drug. Does it work or not-we don't have enough information on it to say for sure. But suddenly the effectiveness of a medication to treat someone who is seriously ill is a political talking point.

I'll defer to the medical professionals here on if it works but it's bizarre that some see it as a miracle cure and others see it as snake oil.
 

RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
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I can’t remember where I read it, but I have seen where some have stated HCQ treatment is a catch-22. If you use it too early, a patient may not have needed it and the side effects are worse than the actual effects of the disease. But if you wait until you know someone needs it, then it is too late for the drug to be effective.
The risks of adverse effects are always too high if the drug has no chance of being beneficial.
 

RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
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That's the weird thing about that drug. Does it work or not-we don't have enough information on it to say for sure. But suddenly the effectiveness of a medication to treat someone who is seriously ill is a political talking point.

I'll defer to the medical professionals here on if it works but it's bizarre that some see it as a miracle cure and others see it as snake oil.
It is a phenomenon unlike any I have ever seen, where there is such tribalism surrounding a drug. Not even MJ evokes such strong tribalism.
 

steross

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Yeah, it's classic shifting the burden of proof - "you can't find proof it doesn't work". But that isn't the way that drug studies work. For every other drug and combination of drugs on the planet the burden of proof for efficacy and safety is on the drug.

There are trials under way that should answer the question of efficacy and safety, though not likely to the HCQ-zealots satisfaction. From clinicaltrials.gov:

A Study of Quintuple Therapy to Treat COVID-19 Infection (HAZDpaC)
Drug: Hydroxychloroquine
Drug: Azithromycin
Dietary Supplement: Vitamin C
Dietary Supplement: Vitamin D
Dietary Supplement: Zinc

Hydroxychloroquine and Zinc With Either Azithromycin or Doxycycline for Treatment of COVID-19 in Outpatient Setting
Drug: Hydroxychloroquine
Drug: Azithromycin
Drug: Zinc Sulfate
Drug: Doxycycline
This is the level of evidence being applied.
1596281323081.png
 

RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
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This is the level of evidence being applied.
View attachment 84369
Yeah, there is the solipsism... if I haven't heard of anyone dying on the combo then no one has ever died on the combo because my experience is all that exists.

But the world is bigger than his experience and the recall bias of his friends and sycophants.
 

TheMonkey

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The risks of adverse effects are always too high if the drug has no chance of being beneficial.
I completely understand your point. I’m willing to still leave room for it Potentially having some benefit. But In this case, it would require using it so early that the risks greatly outweigh any chance of benefit. Just a layman interpretation here.
 
Jan 14, 2006
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MLB baseball may have to be cancelled. So far 16 games have had to be suspended. St Louis Cards experience outbreak today. MLB commissioner says he is almost ready to shut it down
I still have only heard of one player (Freeman) who actually had symptoms. Shocked they aren't highlighting how rare symptoms are in healthy people.
 

Binman4OSU

Legendary Cowboy
Aug 31, 2007
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Stupid about AGW!!
Camp closed in late June. Great news is that not one single hospitalization was recorded from any of the campers or the staff. The camp was a YMCA summer camp.
Asymptomatic infection was common and potentially contributed to undetected transmission, as has been previously reported," the CDC report stated. "This investigation adds to the body of evidence demonstrating that children of all ages are susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 infection and, contrary to early reports, might play an important role in transmission."
 
Mar 11, 2006
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Asymptomatic infection was common and potentially contributed to undetected transmission, as has been previously reported," the CDC report stated. "This investigation adds to the body of evidence demonstrating that children of all ages are susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 infection and, contrary to early reports, might play an important role in transmission."
Yup we continue to get more info. But we cannot allow the loud fear mongers incorrectly use data to push kids from in-person school.

As CDC Director, Robert Redfield, said last week when asked about sending his school-age grandchildren back to school, “ I’m a hundred percent that they can get back to school“.
“I think it's really important to get our schools open,” he said. “As I've said, it's not public health vs. opening the schools or the economy. It's public health vs. public health.”

Redfield added that “there really are a number of negative public health consequences that have happened to our K through 12s by having these schools close.”

We need to have virtual options for our vulnerable children and teachers, but we need the vast majority of students and teachers in the classroom.