Covid-19

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RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
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I get what you're saying and your concerns. Help me understand what is now happening in Sweden. They were the "experiement" with taking no safety measures which did result in a high number of deaths. However, since their deaths have pretty much bottomed out and the daily cases are 1/6th what they were at the peak 2 weeks ago. Could it be the mythical heard immunity even though we think the antibodies are only temporary?

Sweden's coronavirus death toll is now approaching zero, but experts are warning others not to hail it as a success
Sweden
1594734668990.png

United States
1594734706067.png

New York City
1594734844401.png


Deaths per million pop
Sweden 548
United States 418
New York City 1930

Populations
United States 330 million
Sweden 10 million
New York City 8.4 million

Population densities
New York City 27,000 per sq mile
United States 92.9 per sq mile
Sweden 64 per sq mile

Comparisons with Sweden have always been apples and oranges. And no, herd immunity is NOT and has never been allowing a pathogen to run through a population unchecked killing whomever it might kill, until it has saturated a population and there are no high risk people left to die. Ever. It didn't work during the Black Death, and didn't work during the 1918 Spanish Flu. It's foolish.
 

RxCowboy

Has no Rx for his orange obsession.
A/V Subscriber
Nov 8, 2004
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Wishing I was in Stillwater
You have seen the contact tracing studies on children and asymptomatic people correct. That is science, they are still learning and aren't willing to say the two groups can not spread the disease but the risk of spread from the two groups is very low near 0.

As a general rule it is believed children under 10 can't get the disease. Of course their will be a few exceptions to every rule. Something about a receptor most have not developed yet that prevents them from catching the disease. Once again that is science.

It has amazed me watching you through this. You have been out there screaming the science of emotion for the most part. You sound like a far lefty. People will die we know that it is one of the side effects of a pandemic. It happens with disease every day in the world.

The scientific objective is to not overload the ICU's with Covid patients so we don't have a lot of deaths from other preventable things. Even at peak in NYC that never happened. It's not happening now.

All the science points to this being no more or even less severe than the average flu season for people under 20. It also points to the fact they are at very low risk of spreading it to other people even if they become infected unlike the flu.

Go ahead keep screaming people will die as your whole argument like a far lefty.

Keeping the economy shut down will end up killing far more people but muh the virus.
Pretty much everything you say here is factually incorrect. I'll just refer you to what my epidemiologist friend posted yesterday (posted below).

Ah, calling me a "far lefty" when in reality I'm anything but. I've never voted anything but Republican in my entire life, and fiscally most Republicans look like RINOs to me. Your insult falls flat.

"Keeping the economy shut down will end up killing far more people but muh the virus."

As to that assertion, the burden of proof is on you. So prove it.

If we don't stop the spread of the virus the economy is going to shut down again, whether we like it or not.

COVID-19: Monday July 13th
K-12 schools - reopening, what you need to know and what you need to ask.

Globally we hit 13 million cases over the weekend which means globally we added 1 million cases in 4 days. That is 1 day faster than the last million. The US also set a new record on Friday with 71k new cases in a single day.

Let's talk about K-12 schools reopening. (we will do colleges another day this week). There is a lot we could discuss but who wants to read a novel? Instead I am going to focus on just a few key points, but I am happy to answer any questions you may have or provide resources as needed. I too have children so I understand the angst this situation can cause.

Remember, this is all about recognizing risk and how to mitigate it. So I want to focus on practical things you can do to get the information you need and feel informed to make a decision for your family. I also want to say that there are a lot of unknowns here and this is not going to be a one size fits all situation. Prevention plans must be specific to the school system and even to the individual school. The CDC published a guide for schools to know if it was safe to reopen and then guidance for how to do that.

However, it is just guidance, to guide each school through what to consider and ways to address risks. It has to be tailored to each situation and it is not regulation. That is how these things work.

While there is much that is unknown, we do know that children (under 16) seem to be less likely to develop severe COVID-19 than adults. They also seem to be less likely to spread it. How many children exactly have gotten it we can't know because right now many children are considerably less social than they were before the outbreak (i.e. they are staying home) and many states aren't testing children at all unless they end up hospitalized. So we don't have any idea how many children have gotten it. This means current infection rate numbers for children tell us very little.

We know that less children end up hospitalized which means children tend to have less severe cases. We also know that school is an essential service and not attending school has significant negative outcomes for many children. Some things we have seen include: increased mental health issues, increased child abuse, increased molestation, increased hunger, increased achievement gap, loss of learning, decreased access to counseling, decreased access to social programs, healthy meals etc. The reality of this situation is there are negative consequences either way. We are choosing between two bad options. More than likely, schools will open so what can we do to make sure that is done safely?

Information is vital. I have seen reports from other countries that they reopened without issues. This is true. But there have also been countries that have not - Israel and Australia for example. How well this goes depends on how well each school does it. We also need to remember that teachers and staff are a very big part of this equation and their risk is higher than our students. Three teachers in Arizona just got COVID while meeting at the school to teach online summer classes. One of them died. The other two are still ill, weeks later. So prevention and protection measures need to include protecting teachers and staff.
Identifying the risks is key. Arrival and departures are high risk times (including riding the bus to and from), recess, lunch, library time, changing classes, bathroom breaks, gym, choir, music and athletics are also all high risk activities. Extracurricular activities could be as well depending on the activity. Large, crowded classrooms are a risk. Any prevention plan should include plans for reducing the risk associated with these activities.

We also need to remember that MIS-C is a life threatening disease that is a "side effect" of children being exposed to COVID-19.

Most likely your school is going to open. As a parent, teacher, or staff member you need to know the prevention plan at your school. You want to ask questions to assure they have a quality, well developed plan. Some things to ask/know - 1) did they include a public health professional, epidemiologist or infection prevention specialist in the plan development? 2) Do they have a plan for high risk students, teachers and staff? i.e. what about people who can't be there or don't feel safe doing so? Is there an option for them? 3) Do they have a plan for when someone tests positive? Because most likely someone will. 4) what is the plan to reduce each of the risk areas listed above? 5) does their plan involve more than screening and cleaning? Because that is not enough.

Cont....6) Do they have a plan for what to do if teachers become ill in large numbers? 7) Do they have a testing plan they have coordinated with public health officials and testing centers to get real-time information? 8) what is their communication plan with parents? 9) Did they purchase air filters specifically designed to reduce viral spread? 10) what is their plan B should it not be safe to open or stay open? 11) What PPE will they be providing teachers and staff? Will they be providing any PPE to students? Are they requiring its use? What are they doing about non-compliance? Because the best plan in the world is worthless if people don't follow it.

Ask questions. Lots of questions. Then make the decision that is best for you and your family.

FINAL THOUGHTS: You have to make the decisions that are right for you and your family. Be informed and then make those decisions. Do not feel bad for that. Let others make the decisions that are right for them. Right now we need each other. We need to support and uphold each other. We need to ask questions and seek truth, do not feel bad about that. We are starting another week - if models are correct it is going to be a rough one. Support each other, be kind, reach out and offer each other encouragement. Together we can do this.
 
May 4, 2011
1,893
973
743
Charleston, SC
Sweden
View attachment 83460
United States
View attachment 83461
New York City
View attachment 83462

Deaths per million pop
Sweden 548
United States 418
New York City 1930

Populations
United States 330 million
Sweden 10 million
New York City 8.4 million

Population densities
New York City 27,000 per sq mile
United States 92.9 per sq mile
Sweden 64 per sq mile

Comparisons with Sweden have always been apples and oranges. And no, herd immunity is NOT and has never been allowing a pathogen to run through a population unchecked killing whomever it might kill, until it has saturated a population and there are no high risk people left to die. Ever. It didn't work during the Black Death, and didn't work during the 1918 Spanish Flu. It's foolish.
What's interesting about herd immunity is that if we could get people to comply, we could actually reach it at much lower infection rates if we could get people to listen (eg, limit your social circles). To demonstrate, we use this tool to show how prevention strategies can be more effective in reducing or eliminating infectious disease spread (says vaccine, but applies to any prevention strategy and as a heads up, the applet doesn't really work in mobile devices).

http://vax.herokuapp.com/game
 
Mar 11, 2006
2,506
1,742
1,743
Deaths per million pop
Sweden 548
United States 418
New York City 1930

Populations
United States 330 million
Sweden 10 million
New York City 8.4 million

Population densities
New York City 27,000 per sq mile
United States 92.9 per sq mile
Sweden 64 per sq mile

Comparisons with Sweden have always been apples and oranges. And no, herd immunity is NOT and has never been allowing a pathogen to run through a population unchecked killing whomever it might kill, until it has saturated a population and there are no high risk people left to die. Ever. It didn't work during the Black Death, and didn't work during the 1918 Spanish Flu. It's foolish.
You are stretching to make your point. New York state’s population density is about 420/m. Stockholm is about 9.2k/m. You compared a city to an entire country. And Sweden is dominated with two population centers.
 

Binman4OSU

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Aug 31, 2007
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Stupid about AGW!!
https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1282415497447976965?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1282415497447976965%7Ctwgr%5E&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fkoanewsradio.iheart.com%2F
I would love to know where this dude got his information..because as of 4 days ago the State does NOT publish daily hospital information and hasn't during the entire COVID-19 outbreak.

On July 5th DeSantis promised reporters he would start having the state report daily COVID numbers for hospitals in all 67 counties. However, by July 7th. the press was all over his ass because they still haven't started doing it.
 

Binman4OSU

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Stupid about AGW!!
here are the current reopening plans being considered by the Tulsa Metro area largest schools

Bixby Public Schools
  • Considering three types of instruction: in-person, blend of in-person and remote learning or virtual full-time
  • Determining what type of safety measures to implement such as routine screenings, masks and social distancing
  • Getting input from parents via online survey
Jenks Public Schools
  • The district said they will require masks be worn by all staff and students between 3rd and 12th grade. They'll also require everyone to wear masks on school busses.
  • Jenks Public Schools said they'll work with families to make sure those with financial needs have masks.
    Board members said tonight their "Return to Learn" plan include three options. Those are 'all at-school learning' for Pre-k to 12th grade, 'all-virtual learning' through Trojan Connect from Kindergarten to 12th grade, and 'blended learning' from 7th-12th grade.
    Staff said they will do things differently in classrooms to prevent COVID-19 from spreading, like ramping up cleaning and increasing social distancing.
    They're also replacing standard HVAC filters with new filters designed to capture COVID-19 droplets.
Sand Springs Public Schools
  • All school sites will operate with face-to-face instruction as normal
  • Will offer virtual or blended instruction for pre-K through 12th grades
  • Virtual Academy has been expanded and is expecting an uptick in enrollment
  • Making contingency plans in case of intermittent disruptions
Sapulpa Public Schools
  • Still in the planning stages
Tulsa Public Schools
  • Considering three calendar options
  • Planning on three types of instruction: learning in-person, mix of in-person and distance learning and distance-only learning
  • Planning to offer virtual-only option for families and students who are at a high-risk for coronavirus infection or those who prefer their children stay at home
  • Continuing to work closely with Tulsa Health Department for guidance
Union Public Schools
  • Working behind the scenes to determine protocols and safety measures
  • Making plans to step up distance learning in case students would need to be learning from home
  • Surveying parents to determine willingness to send kids back to school and whether they are comfortable putting them on buses
 

Binman4OSU

Legendary Cowboy
Aug 31, 2007
33,585
16,465
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Stupid about AGW!!
here are the current reopening plans being considered by the Tulsa Metro area largest schools

Bixby Public Schools
  • Considering three types of instruction: in-person, blend of in-person and remote learning or virtual full-time
  • Determining what type of safety measures to implement such as routine screenings, masks and social distancing
  • Getting input from parents via online survey
Jenks Public Schools
  • The district said they will require masks be worn by all staff and students between 3rd and 12th grade. They'll also require everyone to wear masks on school busses.
  • Jenks Public Schools said they'll work with families to make sure those with financial needs have masks.
    Board members said tonight their "Return to Learn" plan include three options. Those are 'all at-school learning' for Pre-k to 12th grade, 'all-virtual learning' through Trojan Connect from Kindergarten to 12th grade, and 'blended learning' from 7th-12th grade.
    Staff said they will do things differently in classrooms to prevent COVID-19 from spreading, like ramping up cleaning and increasing social distancing.
    They're also replacing standard HVAC filters with new filters designed to capture COVID-19 droplets.
Sand Springs Public Schools
  • All school sites will operate with face-to-face instruction as normal
  • Will offer virtual or blended instruction for pre-K through 12th grades
  • Virtual Academy has been expanded and is expecting an uptick in enrollment
  • Making contingency plans in case of intermittent disruptions
Sapulpa Public Schools
  • Still in the planning stages
Tulsa Public Schools
  • Considering three calendar options
  • Planning on three types of instruction: learning in-person, mix of in-person and distance learning and distance-only learning
  • Planning to offer virtual-only option for families and students who are at a high-risk for coronavirus infection or those who prefer their children stay at home
  • Continuing to work closely with Tulsa Health Department for guidance
Union Public Schools
  • Working behind the scenes to determine protocols and safety measures
  • Making plans to step up distance learning in case students would need to be learning from home
  • Surveying parents to determine willingness to send kids back to school and whether they are comfortable putting them on buses
And updates were made yesterday

Bartlesville, Jenks, and Union Public Schools have all decided masks must be worn at school, but there are some distinctions between districts.
Bartlesville Public Schools said face masks will be added to the dress code for middle and high school students, and staff will be required to wear one.
The district will provide a neck gaiter for all students at the start of the year which they can wear as masks.
Students must wear their masks at all times when on school grounds, including on school buses.
Elementary students in Bartlesville won't be required to wear masks, but it's strongly encouraged.
Jenks Public Schools has decided that all staff and students in 3rd through 12th grade must wear a mask.
Just like Bartlesville and Union, Jenks students will also have to wear masks anytime they're on a school bus.
Jenks has said it will work with families to make sure those with financial issues have masks.
Union Public Schools has decided that all students and staff will have to wear masks in school buildings and on school buses.
Union has also pushed back their start date.
In a decision late Monday night, the Union School Board decided classes will now begin on August 24th.
 

Binman4OSU

Legendary Cowboy
Aug 31, 2007
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Stupid about AGW!!
OKC Public schools are pushing forward with Aug 10th back to school and will offer in person and online learning
OKCPS’ Back to School Plan includes two options for families for the 2020-21 school year. We look forward to welcoming our students back to the classroom in a traditional style of face-to-face learning on August 10th. The district will also offer a virtual learning model for those who are unable to return to school for in-person classes and/or those families who simply choose to learn from home.