Comedian Elected Ukranian President

  • You are viewing Orangepower as a Guest. To start new threads, reply to posts, or participate in polls or contests - you must register. Registration is free and easy. Click Here to register.
Jul 25, 2018
1,400
404
163
48
Boulder, CO
#1
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...cted-ukraines-president/ar-BBW9Uoh?li=BBnb7Kz

I said during the Clinton years that if Oprah wanted to be President, she'd have a real shot. Well, little did any of us know at the time that Trump would eventually become the first total outsider to win the White House.

I don't think Trump is the last outsider that will win the Presidency at all. Won't be surprised to see more like him in the White House. The parties & establishment will fight it, just like they did with Trump, but they may be hard-pressed to stop it, imo.
 

llcoolw

Territorial Marshal
Feb 7, 2005
5,567
3,164
1,743
Sammamish, Washington.Dallas, Texas.Maui, Hawaii
#5
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...cted-ukraines-president/ar-BBW9Uoh?li=BBnb7Kz

I said during the Clinton years that if Oprah wanted to be President, she'd have a real shot. Well, little did any of us know at the time that Trump would eventually become the first total outsider to win the White House.

I don't think Trump is the last outsider that will win the Presidency at all. Won't be surprised to see more like him in the White House. The parties & establishment will fight it, just like they did with Trump, but they may be hard-pressed to stop it, imo.
The Rock, as president.
 
Aug 16, 2012
1,270
800
743
56
#8
Table Rock?? Do you fish?
Yep. Great balance of water (can always find a good spot because of the shape), size, crowd (lack of), and not totally off in the sticks.

Not enough to say I fish. Have a pole I toss under the deck and throw out from time to time but damned if I recall ever catching anything. We go out with one big boat for 10-16+ people to drink, eat, play, etc. and my boat to drag people across the water when they are ready or show off until the 28+ footers show up.
 
Nov 6, 2010
575
248
593
#9
Yep. Great balance of water (can always find a good spot because of the shape), size, crowd (lack of), and not totally off in the sticks.

Not enough to say I fish. Have a pole I toss under the deck and throw out from time to time but damned if I recall ever catching anything. We go out with one big boat for 10-16+ people to drink, eat, play, etc. and my boat to drag people across the water when they are ready or show off until the 28+ footers show up.
Yea, beautiful lake. I've fished it a couple times, better for scenery and what you do than fishing IMO.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

Federal Marshal
Oct 15, 2003
15,689
2,464
1,743
So Cal
#10
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...cted-ukraines-president/ar-BBW9Uoh?li=BBnb7Kz

I said during the Clinton years that if Oprah wanted to be President, she'd have a real shot. Well, little did any of us know at the time that Trump would eventually become the first total outsider to win the White House.

I don't think Trump is the last outsider that will win the Presidency at all. Won't be surprised to see more like him in the White House. The parties & establishment will fight it, just like they did with Trump, but they may be hard-pressed to stop it, imo.
total outsider to what?

Are State governors considered outsiders? I would think so.... Clinton, Reagan, Jimmy... Reagan also happened to be a celebrity as well... which might have been what you were going for.

The people (both here and across the world) are sick and tired of not being heard and being lied to... they are more and more often going outside of the main-stream political structure to elect people that they think will listen to them.
 
Jul 25, 2018
1,400
404
163
48
Boulder, CO
#11
total outsider to what?

Are State governors considered outsiders? I would think so.... Clinton, Reagan, Jimmy... Reagan also happened to be a celebrity as well... which might have been what you were going for.

The people (both here and across the world) are sick and tired of not being heard and being lied to... they are more and more often going outside of the main-stream political structure to elect people that they think will listen to them.
A political outsider who's never held an office. Not Reagan, or Carter, for instance, since they'd both been in public office prior to the Presidency.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

Federal Marshal
Oct 15, 2003
15,689
2,464
1,743
So Cal
#12
A political outsider who's never held an office. Not Reagan, or Carter, for instance, since they'd both been in public office prior to the Presidency.
I think it has zero to do with being an "outsider" as you've defined it. The establishment called it a "retail candidate" (bought their way in, instead of coming through the ranks).

It probably has more to do with the celebrity status (similar to the Ukraine guy)... other celebrities in the US have been elected to top positions (mayor, governor, senator), with poor results (Jesse Ventura, Al Frankin, Arnold Schwarzenegger, etc.).

on a nation wide election, most people are not going to simply vote for someone based on celebrity (e.g., Opra, or Rock), it must also be based on some common values that are being shouted by the people, and unheard by the bureaucracy.

I would definitely include Reagan as an "outsider", because he was opposed by his party, the other party, and darn near everybody in establishment.
 
Jul 25, 2018
1,400
404
163
48
Boulder, CO
#13
I think it has zero to do with being an "outsider" as you've defined it. The establishment called it a "retail candidate" (bought their way in, instead of coming through the ranks).

It probably has more to do with the celebrity status (similar to the Ukraine guy)... other celebrities in the US have been elected to top positions (mayor, governor, senator), with poor results (Jesse Ventura, Al Frankin, Arnold Schwarzenegger, etc.).

on a nation wide election, most people are not going to simply vote for someone based on celebrity (e.g., Opra, or Rock), it must also be based on some common values that are being shouted by the people, and unheard by the bureaucracy.

I would definitely include Reagan as an "outsider", because he was opposed by his party, the other party, and darn near everybody in establishment.
Oh my lord. You're literally going to argue my definition of a political outsider?

& yes, I agree that people are not going to vote for them strictly because of their celebrity status. They have no campaign without shouting some things that people agree with & support.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

Federal Marshal
Oct 15, 2003
15,689
2,464
1,743
So Cal
#14
Oh my lord. You're literally going to argue my definition of a political outsider?

.
I'm not "arguing" anything, I simply asked you how you define it, so I'd know what in the heck you were talking about.

"outsider", as I have always heard it described, means outside the beltway (not part of the DC establishment structure - not necessarily that they have never held any political office).

"outsider" also means (in the 2016 election), outside of the party establishment. Bernie Sanders was considered an "outsider", despite having spend his entire life in politics. Ted Cruz tried to claim "outsider" status to anybody who would listen to him, because he stood up to establishment in the short time he had been in. Retail candidate Trump, and some others were obvious outsiders (Carson, Fiorina) while Jeb Bush was considered an insider (DC establishment) despite never having been himself in the belt way.

As with other political vocabulary, the definitions of “insider” and “outsider” are nebulous and vary according to the political or journalistic ambitions of the individual or publication utilizing the label. Broadly, a political “outsider” is a figure involved in politics and decision-making but who lacks ideological or personal associations with the most powerful ideologues and policymakers within a political party.
 
Jul 25, 2018
1,400
404
163
48
Boulder, CO
#15
I'm not "arguing" anything, I simply asked you how you define it, so I'd know what in the heck you were talking about.

"outsider", as I have always heard it described, means outside the beltway (not part of the DC establishment structure - not necessarily that they have never held any political office).

"outsider" also means (in the 2016 election), outside of the party establishment. Bernie Sanders was considered an "outsider", despite having spend his entire life in politics. Ted Cruz tried to claim "outsider" status to anybody who would listen to him, because he stood up to establishment in the short time he had been in. Retail candidate Trump, and some others were obvious outsiders (Carson, Fiorina) while Jeb Bush was considered an insider (DC establishment) despite never having been himself in the belt way.

As with other political vocabulary, the definitions of “insider” and “outsider” are nebulous and vary according to the political or journalistic ambitions of the individual or publication utilizing the label. Broadly, a political “outsider” is a figure involved in politics and decision-making but who lacks ideological or personal associations with the most powerful ideologues and policymakers within a political party.
When I cite Oprah & Trump as outsiders, it would seem pretty clear that they're different than Carter or Reagan.

Thought that was pretty evident.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

Federal Marshal
Oct 15, 2003
15,689
2,464
1,743
So Cal
#16
When I cite Oprah & Trump as outsiders, it would seem pretty clear that they're different than Carter or Reagan.

Thought that was pretty evident.
well duh.... aren't you captain obvious.

I was asking who you were excluding, not whether those 2 were actually outsiders... BECAUSE of the CONTEXT of the point that you were making.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

Federal Marshal
Oct 15, 2003
15,689
2,464
1,743
So Cal
#18
Limbaugh criticized the Republican party for not fully standing behind Trump and celebrating his "victory" when the Special Counsel Robert Mueller's report was released. He also noted that Trump wasn't just taking on the Democrats but was battling the Washington establishment -- including Republicans.

"Where's the Republican party with the celebratory emails to their voters? Even fund-raising, or just celebrating the victory, where are they? You don't hear them. The reason is, Martha, because this is a battle not between two parties, this is a battle between the Washington establishment and the deep state, I call them the administrative state, and outsiders and Americans who feel disenfranchised or unattached," Limbaugh said.
 

CocoCincinnati

Federal Marshal
Feb 7, 2007
16,476
23,850
1,743
Tulsa, OK
#19
this is a battle not between two parties, this is a battle between the Washington establishment and the deep state
I disagree with him. This is a battle between the establishment and we the people...the deep state is part of the establishment. The political elites have had a complete stranglehold on DC for decades and all of a sudden here comes a guy who hasn't held a public job in his life....the nerve to think he can step right into the presidency. These people in Washington, Reps and Dems alike, think they own the government, this is why the level of vitriol has ramped up so much more than normal with Trump......if they could they would change the rules to make 25 years in Congress a requirement for the White House. Vote 3rd party.
 

Duke Silver

Find safe haven in a warm bathtub full of my jazz.
A/V Subscriber
Sep 17, 2004
26,394
13,679
1,743
Cozy's Bar
#20
I disagree with him. This is a battle between the establishment and we the people...the deep state is part of the establishment. The political elites have had a complete stranglehold on DC for decades and all of a sudden here comes a guy who hasn't held a public job in his life....the nerve to think he can step right into the presidency. These people in Washington, Reps and Dems alike, think they own the government, this is why the level of vitriol has ramped up so much more than normal with Trump......if they could they would change the rules to make 25 years in Congress a requirement for the White House. Vote 3rd party.
That is what he said