Civil war in Venezuela

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CaliforniaCowboy

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#81
Allow me to explain. There are characteristics people possess that make them better or worse at "capitalism" that go beyond simply being willing to work. Examples would be the most menial and physically demanding jobs being the lower paid jobs. Capitalism works best for those with education, skills, genetic traits, family ties, and a strong work ethic. So, while willingness to work is a huge factor, it is not the only factor.
there is only one other factor - the capability to work. If you're not capable, then obviously it won't work well for you. Fortunately there are very few that are not capable, especially in today's world of ADA and accessibility.

capitalism works best when it is compared to any other system.
 
Nov 6, 2010
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#82
there is only one other factor - the capability to work. If you're not capable, then obviously it won't work well for you. Fortunately there are very few that are not capable, especially in today's world of ADA and accessibility.

capitalism works best when it is compared to any other system.
Are you seriously suggesting that work ethic is the ONLY factor?? Come on man, I'm a big believer in the system and have benefited from it greatly. I can also acknowledge that there are other factors. A couple of examples if you will:

1. Anderson Cooper - Vanderbilt heir. Do you think he would have worked his way into his current position from the ground up, or did his bloodline play a factor?

2. Al Pacino - Did not finish high school. It could be argued that he was too lazy to finish school, or he simply capitalized on his skill set. Either way, most high school drop outs don't have Al's skillset, so it's more than just work ethic.
 

SLVRBK

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#84
Are you seriously suggesting that work ethic is the ONLY factor?? Come on man, I'm a big believer in the system and have benefited from it greatly. I can also acknowledge that there are other factors. A couple of examples if you will:

1. Anderson Cooper - Vanderbilt heir. Do you think he would have worked his way into his current position from the ground up, or did his bloodline play a factor?

2. Al Pacino - Did not finish high school. It could be argued that he was too lazy to finish school, or he simply capitalized on his skill set. Either way, most high school drop outs don't have Al's skillset, so it's more than just work ethic.
I don't know Cooper's backstory but Pacino put in a lot of work and sacrifice to develop that skill set. He worked several menial jobs to pay for acting classes while being homeless as a teenager. Took low paying jobs to develop his craft on stage and got his first "break" at 28-29.
 
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#85
I don't know Cooper's backstory but Pacino put in a lot of work and sacrifice to develop that skill set. He worked several menial jobs to pay for acting classes while being homeless as a teenager. Took low paying jobs to develop his craft on stage and got his first "break" at 28-29.
Yes, and I'm not contending that work ethic is not a factor, it is a huge factor. I'm just saying it's not the only factor. He also understood his opportunity and CAPITALIZED on it.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

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Oct 15, 2003
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#86
Are you seriously suggesting that work ethic is the ONLY factor?? Come on man, I'm a big believer in the system and have benefited from it greatly. I can also acknowledge that there are other factors. A couple of examples if you will:

1. Anderson Cooper - Vanderbilt heir. Do you think he would have worked his way into his current position from the ground up, or did his bloodline play a factor?

2. Al Pacino - Did not finish high school. It could be argued that he was too lazy to finish school, or he simply capitalized on his skill set. Either way, most high school drop outs don't have Al's skillset, so it's more than just work ethic.
yes... I'm totally suggesting that, and it's true.

You seem to be confusing "results" with effort, and cherry picking examples that don't actually demonstrate the issue.

Frankly there is no alternative. Socialism works best for whom? How might Anderson Cooper have done under socialism? How about Al Pacino? You remember all of those great movies that have been produced as a result of socialism... heck why don't you just list a few of them for me.

The movie industry (Al Pacino example) can only exist under capitalism, those willing to take a risk to produce something that they think they can sell to others (movies). Same with Anderson Cooper, there would be no TV competition under socialism. he would likely not even have a job, and we would not have to know that he's gay.

Yes, that is exactly what I'm suggesting.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

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#87
Yes, and I'm not contending that work ethic is not a factor, it is a huge factor. I'm just saying it's not the only factor. He also understood his opportunity and CAPITALIZED on it.
well.... without capitalism, he would not have been able to capitalize on it, now would he. Which is the whole point.
 
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#88
well.... without capitalism, he would not have been able to capitalize on it, now would he. Which is the whole point.
No, I was replying to Gumby's contention that hard work was the only factor to success under a system of capitalism. I made no reference to socialism and no comparison of the two systems. I simply assert that it's not that simple, as in my original post.
 
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#89
Allow me to explain. There are characteristics people possess that make them better or worse at "capitalism" that go beyond simply being willing to work. Examples would be the most menial and physically demanding jobs being the lower paid jobs. Capitalism works best for those with education, skills, genetic traits, family ties, and a strong work ethic. So, while willingness to work is a huge factor, it is not the only factor.
I'm curious why anyone would expect a person to be successful if they didn't have at least have one of those traits? Some of the most successful people I know are "dumb hicks" who work their asses off.
 
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Nov 6, 2010
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#90
I'm curious why anyone would expect a person to be successful if they didn't have at least have one of those traits? Some of the most successful people I know are "dumb hicks" who work their assess off.
Agreed. ALL of those traits play a factor. Work ethic is a huge factor, just not the only one.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

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#91
Agreed. ALL of those traits play a factor. Work ethic is a huge factor, just not the only one.
now we're on to you defining "success" for others.

There are ton's of "poor" people that are perfectly content to be so (as opposed to changing what they are doing, or love to do).

I'd content that worth ethic has little to do with outcome... some, but only a small factor, per your definitions.

A person can work 80 hrs a week at 2 or 3 menial jobs and still not get ahead. Work ethic has little impact in that scenario.

Some of the most wealthy (i.e., your "successful") hardly work at all, and let their money work for them.

I think you're just making this stuff up and hoping that some of it stick to the wall.
 
Nov 6, 2010
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#92
now we're on to you defining "success" for others.

There are ton's of "poor" people that are perfectly content to be so (as opposed to changing what they are doing, or love to do).

I'd content that worth ethic has little to do with outcome... some, but only a small factor, per your definitions.

A person can work 80 hrs a week at 2 or 3 menial jobs and still not get ahead. Work ethic has little impact in that scenario.

Some of the most wealthy (i.e., your "successful") hardly work at all, and let their money work for them.

I think you're just making this stuff up and hoping that some of it stick to the wall.
OK, you get someone working those 80 hours to tell me how content they are, and how capitalism is working for them and I'll agree. My guess is that person will be a Bernie voter, which is not good for any of us.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

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#93
OK, you get someone working those 80 hours to tell me how content they are, and how capitalism is working for them and I'll agree. My guess is that person will be a Bernie voter, which is not good for any of us.
I guess I"m not following along... what does content have to do with anything? People that are not content, make changes - which is the goal. Once they get content, then they stay on welfare (for example)

Bernie voters are those who want something for nothing, not those that are working towards something.

The only way to stop Bernie voters is to take control of the government and reduce it's self-attained power and authority to take our money and give it away. We must amend the constitution.

You won't change our future arguing capitalism or socialism - socialism must be removed as an option (like it use to be).

16th and 17th amendments repealed, social security and medicare privatized, term limits on supreme beings and an amendment that overturns the supreme being's claims about the commerce clause and other legislation that they have enacted from the bench further empowering the federal leviathan.

(in other words, if we don't unite as a people and demand our individual liberties be returned to us, then this experiment in self-governing is going to end pretty soon, and badly)
 

CaliforniaCowboy

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#96
So what is current state of Venezuela? seem like there was a reasonable amount of pre-May Day coverage, and then blackout.
I heard on the radio this morning that the protests in the street are sort of over, but now he's urging massive worker strikes to bring him down.
 

CaliforniaCowboy

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Alex Jones is still taking hate on Facebook where he said: "The coup failed. Venezuela will remain free. Hang the coward American backed scum of the earth that betrayed the poor."
while all the other libs that supported and backed that socialist dictator have remained in hiding...

"...until a few years ago, the Venezuelan regime was a cause of the left, cheered by people like Naomi Klein, Sean Penn and Danny Glover. Left-wing publications such as Glenn Greenwald’s “The Intercept” have gone out of their way to make excuses for the regime and treat its critics as Washington stooges. Jeremy Corbyn, who could yet be Britain’s next prime minister, memorialized the late dictator Hugo Chávez in 2013 for his “massive contributions to Venezuela & a very wide world.”