Big XII Coach Rankings

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Sep 29, 2011
2,217
494
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Breckenridge, CO
#24
No way Campbell and Patterson are ahead of Gundy, I like what Campbell is doing at ISU, but lets see some longevity before we put him that high, also i would say Riley needs to be higher plus no way Herman should be that high up too
I agree with you on Campbell but Patterson has owned Gundy the last few years, Also Riley is a top 3 or 4 coach and Herman doesn't belong in the top 30, few people do less with more than the HC at Texas. .
Patterson with the 3rd best recruiting rank in the conference has 2 losing seasons in the last 5 years. 3 in the last 8. In the last 9 years he’s put up the following 6 seasons.
7-6
4-8
6-7
7-6
5-7
6-4

That’s 35-38. He doesn’t belong above Gundy especially with his recruiting results.


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Jun 13, 2010
2,362
102
1,693
Chicago
#25
No way Campbell and Patterson are ahead of Gundy, I like what Campbell is doing at ISU, but lets see some longevity before we put him that high, also i would say Riley needs to be higher plus no way Herman should be that high up too
Campbell and Patterson are absolutely way, way, way ahead of Gundy.

Patterson has less to work with and contends for conference championships much more frequently than Gundy. I have always been impressed with how disciplined and well-coached his ragtag roster always is, and they always beat us with worse teams. Gundy himself usually admits to being out-coached whenever we play TCU.
 
Sep 29, 2011
2,217
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61
Breckenridge, CO
#27
Campbell and Patterson are absolutely way, way, way ahead of Gundy.

Patterson has less to work with and contends for conference championships much more frequently than Gundy. I have always been impressed with how disciplined and well-coached his ragtag roster always is, and they always beat us with worse teams. Gundy himself usually admits to being out-coached whenever we play TCU.
Follow football much? Patterson recruits better than anyone in the B12 except UT and OU. Yet he's had 2 losing seasons in the last 5, 3 of the last 8.
BTW, he doesn't always beat OSU. Gundy is 5-4 v Patterson.
BTW2, Campbell is 35-28 at ISU. Gundy was 36-27 after 5 years at OSU.
 
Aug 22, 2006
1,808
665
1,743
SE Oklahoma
#28
Campbell and Patterson are absolutely way, way, way ahead of Gundy.

Patterson has less to work with and contends for conference championships much more frequently than Gundy. I have always been impressed with how disciplined and well-coached his ragtag roster always is, and they always beat us with worse teams. Gundy himself usually admits to being out-coached whenever we play TCU.
Follow football much? Patterson recruits better than anyone in the B12 except UT and OU. Yet he's had 2 losing seasons in the last 5, 3 of the last 8.
BTW, he doesn't always beat OSU. Gundy is 5-4 v Patterson.
BTW2, Campbell is 35-28 at ISU. Gundy was 36-27 after 5 years at OSU.
I think Gundy is 1-4 in the last 5 games, maybe 2-3 and every time he lose he talks about being out coached, Gundy himself says this and I for one believe him. So if he is continually being out coached by Patterson then I would rank Patterson higher in the head to head.

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Jan 28, 2008
1,118
668
1,743
OKC, OK
#29
No way Campbell and Patterson are ahead of Gundy, I like what Campbell is doing at ISU, but lets see some longevity before we put him that high, also i would say Riley needs to be higher plus no way Herman should be that high up too
Campbell is eons/light years/miles ahead of
Gundy. He is comfortably positioned at #2 behind Riley.
 
Sep 29, 2011
2,217
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Breckenridge, CO
#30
Campbell and Patterson are absolutely way, way, way ahead of Gundy.

Patterson has less to work with and contends for conference championships much more frequently than Gundy. I have always been impressed with how disciplined and well-coached his ragtag roster always is, and they always beat us with worse teams. Gundy himself usually admits to being out-coached whenever we play TCU.
Follow football much? Patterson recruits better than anyone in the B12 except UT and OU. Yet he's had 2 losing seasons in the last 5, 3 of the last 8.
BTW, he doesn't always beat OSU. Gundy is 5-4 v Patterson.
BTW2, Campbell is 35-28 at ISU. Gundy was 36-27 after 5 years at OSU.
I think Gundy is 1-4 in the last 5 games, maybe 2-3 and every time he lose he talks about being out coached, Gundy himself says this and I for one believe him. So if he is continually being out coached by Patterson then I would rank Patterson higher in the head to head.

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So Klieman s/b ahead of Riley?

It’s a body of work exercise. No way Patterson s/b ahead of Gundy. In the last 5 years Gundy is 43-20, Patterson is 35-27, Campbell 35-28.

Patterson has a substantially worse record with better recruits than Gundy. Get some perspective.

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Last edited:

CocoCincinnati

Federal Marshal
Feb 7, 2007
16,177
17,019
1,743
Tulsa, OK
#31
It appears they gave conference championship game appearances a lot of weight. Certainly not a bad criteria to judge coaches by but shouldn't be the only one. Herman that high is a joke.... nobody in the country does/did less with more talent.
 
Aug 22, 2006
1,808
665
1,743
SE Oklahoma
#32
Campbell and Patterson are absolutely way, way, way ahead of Gundy.

Patterson has less to work with and contends for conference championships much more frequently than Gundy. I have always been impressed with how disciplined and well-coached his ragtag roster always is, and they always beat us with worse teams. Gundy himself usually admits to being out-coached whenever we play TCU.
Follow football much? Patterson recruits better than anyone in the B12 except UT and OU. Yet he's had 2 losing seasons in the last 5, 3 of the last 8.
BTW, he doesn't always beat OSU. Gundy is 5-4 v Patterson.
BTW2, Campbell is 35-28 at ISU. Gundy was 36-27 after 5 years at OSU.
I think Gundy is 1-4 in the last 5 games, maybe 2-3 and every time he lose he talks about being out coached, Gundy himself says this and I for one believe him. So if he is continually being out coached by Patterson then I would rank Patterson higher in the head to head.

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So Klieman s/b ahead of Riley?

It’s a body of work exercise. No way Patterson s/b ahead of Gundy. In the last 5 years Gundy is 43-20, Patterson is 35-27, Campbell 35-28.

Patterson has a substantially worse record with better recruits than Gundy. Get some perspective.

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Its not just head to head for sure and of course Klieman shouldn't be above Riley, I think that Patterson and Gundy fit in the same area of rankings they're both good coaches. The recent head to head may be the only thing that separates them. The fact that you use the fact that Patterson out recruits Gundy as a coaching strength for Gundy really shows who needs some perspective.

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Sep 29, 2011
2,217
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61
Breckenridge, CO
#33
Campbell and Patterson are absolutely way, way, way ahead of Gundy.

Patterson has less to work with and contends for conference championships much more frequently than Gundy. I have always been impressed with how disciplined and well-coached his ragtag roster always is, and they always beat us with worse teams. Gundy himself usually admits to being out-coached whenever we play TCU.
Follow football much? Patterson recruits better than anyone in the B12 except UT and OU. Yet he's had 2 losing seasons in the last 5, 3 of the last 8.
BTW, he doesn't always beat OSU. Gundy is 5-4 v Patterson.
BTW2, Campbell is 35-28 at ISU. Gundy was 36-27 after 5 years at OSU.
I think Gundy is 1-4 in the last 5 games, maybe 2-3 and every time he lose he talks about being out coached, Gundy himself says this and I for one believe him. So if he is continually being out coached by Patterson then I would rank Patterson higher in the head to head.

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So Klieman s/b ahead of Riley?

It’s a body of work exercise. No way Patterson s/b ahead of Gundy. In the last 5 years Gundy is 43-20, Patterson is 35-27, Campbell 35-28.

Patterson has a substantially worse record with better recruits than Gundy. Get some perspective.

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Its not just head to head for sure and of course Klieman shouldn't be above Riley, I think that Patterson and Gundy fit in the same area of rankings they're both good coaches. The recent head to head may be the only thing that separates them. The fact that you use the fact that Patterson out recruits Gundy as a coaching strength for Gundy really shows who needs some perspective.

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At some point doesn’t a coach have to win games? Just for arguments sake let’s say Gundy is a horrible recruiter (should recruit Top-20 instead of 35) and Patterson is great recruiter (should recruit around 40 instead of 30). Who wins more games? Gundy of course.

On the other hand everyone downgrades Herman because of his inability to deliver wins relative to his recruits. Why shouldn’t Patterson get the same treatment?

Klieman and Gundy are the two coaches in the league that outperform their recruiting. Herman and Patterson are the two coaches that underperform their recruiting.

So you can either buy-in to the recruiting angle and put Patterson behind Gundy, or ignore the recruiting angle and put Patterson behind Gundy. Which way do you want it?


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Aug 22, 2006
1,808
665
1,743
SE Oklahoma
#34
The fact is you're not incorrect its a subjective evaluation and I look at it as Patterson has beaten Gundy in the last few meetings when he had no business winning, he out recruits him as you pointed out. The 2 teams Gundy struggles to beat each year are OU and TCU and normally those are the best (OU) and worst (TCU) coached games. Overall record doesn't take into account the strength of scheduling either as I'm not familiar with TCUs out of conference schedule.

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Sep 29, 2011
2,217
494
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Breckenridge, CO
#35
The fact is you're not incorrect its a subjective evaluation and I look at it as Patterson has beaten Gundy in the last few meetings when he had no business winning, he out recruits him as you pointed out. The 2 teams Gundy struggles to beat each year are OU and TCU and normally those are the best (OU) and worst (TCU) coached games. Overall record doesn't take into account the strength of scheduling either as I'm not familiar with TCUs out of conference schedule.

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Last few years.

Head-to-head: 1-1
Conference records:
Patterson: 8-10
Gundy: 11-7

Don’t get your recruiting comment. Patterson out-recruits Gundy. TCU is in the metroplex, closer to recruits, with similar facilities, better academics and better town. They should out-recruit OSU.

You missing a leg or two? Cause it doesn’t look like you even have one to stand on.


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Aug 29, 2004
769
115
1,593
58
Austin, TX
#37
The fact is you're not incorrect its a subjective evaluation and I look at it as Patterson has beaten Gundy in the last few meetings when he had no business winning, he out recruits him as you pointed out. The 2 teams Gundy struggles to beat each year are OU and TCU and normally those are the best (OU) and worst (TCU) coached games. Overall record doesn't take into account the strength of scheduling either as I'm not familiar with TCUs out of conference schedule.

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Patterson is a one trick pony. He loads up on defensive lineman in recruiting, and feasts on teams with below average offensive lines. All of the years he's beaten Gundy, OSU has had subpar offensive lines (i.e. - this year). He basically takes away the run game and makes the opponent one dimensional. Most teams with above average offensive line play will beat TCU.
 

CocoCincinnati

Federal Marshal
Feb 7, 2007
16,177
17,019
1,743
Tulsa, OK
#38
I think this is a key sticking point in this debate. Wins ARE important but there are other factors. There are good wins and bad losses. How many games has Patterson lost that he should've won? How about Gundy? I honestly don't know the answer just posing the question.

Championships also important. Is a conference championship followed by a losing season better or worse than back to back winning seasons without a championship? Patterson has more losing seasons than Gundy but also more conference titles. How do we judge these things?
 
Sep 29, 2011
2,217
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Breckenridge, CO
#40
I think this is a key sticking point in this debate. Wins ARE important but there are other factors. There are good wins and bad losses. How many games has Patterson lost that he should've won? How about Gundy? I honestly don't know the answer just posing the question.

Championships also important. Is a conference championship followed by a losing season better or worse than back to back winning seasons without a championship? Patterson has more losing seasons than Gundy but also more conference titles. How do we judge these things?
Patterson has one shared title in 9 years. Gundy has 1 outright in 10 years. OSU has finished above TCU in the conference 6 out of 9 times. OSU has finished 2nd 3 times, TCU once.

Don't know how you exactly quantify good losses, bad losses, good wins and bad wins. One way is the quality of the roster. TCU consistently has a better star-rated roster. If that is in any way meaningful, there's only one way to cut it. OSU has more conference wins in the last year, last 2 years, last 3 years, last 4 years, last 5 yrs, last 6 years, last 8 years and last 9 years. The only span of time OSU hasn't had more wins is the last 7 years when the win totals were exactly the same - 38-25.