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Patterson with the 3rd best recruiting rank in the conference has 2 losing seasons in the last 5 years. 3 in the last 8. In the last 9 years he’s put up the following 6 seasons.
7-6
4-8
6-7
7-6
5-7
6-4
That’s 35-38. He doesn’t belong above Gundy especially with his recruiting results.
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7-6
4-8
6-7
7-6
5-7
6-4
That’s 35-38. He doesn’t belong above Gundy especially with his recruiting results.
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Campbell and Patterson are absolutely way, way, way ahead of Gundy.
Patterson has less to work with and contends for conference championships much more frequently than Gundy. I have always been impressed with how disciplined and well-coached his ragtag roster always is, and they always beat us with worse teams. Gundy himself usually admits to being out-coached whenever we play TCU.
Patterson has less to work with and contends for conference championships much more frequently than Gundy. I have always been impressed with how disciplined and well-coached his ragtag roster always is, and they always beat us with worse teams. Gundy himself usually admits to being out-coached whenever we play TCU.
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I think Gundy is 1-4 in the last 5 games, maybe 2-3 and every time he lose he talks about being out coached, Gundy himself says this and I for one believe him. So if he is continually being out coached by Patterson then I would rank Patterson higher in the head to head.
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So Klieman s/b ahead of Riley?
It’s a body of work exercise. No way Patterson s/b ahead of Gundy. In the last 5 years Gundy is 43-20, Patterson is 35-27, Campbell 35-28.
Patterson has a substantially worse record with better recruits than Gundy. Get some perspective.
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It’s a body of work exercise. No way Patterson s/b ahead of Gundy. In the last 5 years Gundy is 43-20, Patterson is 35-27, Campbell 35-28.
Patterson has a substantially worse record with better recruits than Gundy. Get some perspective.
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Its not just head to head for sure and of course Klieman shouldn't be above Riley, I think that Patterson and Gundy fit in the same area of rankings they're both good coaches. The recent head to head may be the only thing that separates them. The fact that you use the fact that Patterson out recruits Gundy as a coaching strength for Gundy really shows who needs some perspective.
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At some point doesn’t a coach have to win games? Just for arguments sake let’s say Gundy is a horrible recruiter (should recruit Top-20 instead of 35) and Patterson is great recruiter (should recruit around 40 instead of 30). Who wins more games? Gundy of course.
On the other hand everyone downgrades Herman because of his inability to deliver wins relative to his recruits. Why shouldn’t Patterson get the same treatment?
Klieman and Gundy are the two coaches in the league that outperform their recruiting. Herman and Patterson are the two coaches that underperform their recruiting.
So you can either buy-in to the recruiting angle and put Patterson behind Gundy, or ignore the recruiting angle and put Patterson behind Gundy. Which way do you want it?
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On the other hand everyone downgrades Herman because of his inability to deliver wins relative to his recruits. Why shouldn’t Patterson get the same treatment?
Klieman and Gundy are the two coaches in the league that outperform their recruiting. Herman and Patterson are the two coaches that underperform their recruiting.
So you can either buy-in to the recruiting angle and put Patterson behind Gundy, or ignore the recruiting angle and put Patterson behind Gundy. Which way do you want it?
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The fact is you're not incorrect its a subjective evaluation and I look at it as Patterson has beaten Gundy in the last few meetings when he had no business winning, he out recruits him as you pointed out. The 2 teams Gundy struggles to beat each year are OU and TCU and normally those are the best (OU) and worst (TCU) coached games. Overall record doesn't take into account the strength of scheduling either as I'm not familiar with TCUs out of conference schedule.
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Last few years.
Head-to-head: 1-1
Conference records:
Patterson: 8-10
Gundy: 11-7
Don’t get your recruiting comment. Patterson out-recruits Gundy. TCU is in the metroplex, closer to recruits, with similar facilities, better academics and better town. They should out-recruit OSU.
You missing a leg or two? Cause it doesn’t look like you even have one to stand on.
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Head-to-head: 1-1
Conference records:
Patterson: 8-10
Gundy: 11-7
Don’t get your recruiting comment. Patterson out-recruits Gundy. TCU is in the metroplex, closer to recruits, with similar facilities, better academics and better town. They should out-recruit OSU.
You missing a leg or two? Cause it doesn’t look like you even have one to stand on.
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Patterson is a one trick pony. He loads up on defensive lineman in recruiting, and feasts on teams with below average offensive lines. All of the years he's beaten Gundy, OSU has had subpar offensive lines (i.e. - this year). He basically takes away the run game and makes the opponent one dimensional. Most teams with above average offensive line play will beat TCU.
I think this is a key sticking point in this debate. Wins ARE important but there are other factors. There are good wins and bad losses. How many games has Patterson lost that he should've won? How about Gundy? I honestly don't know the answer just posing the question.
Championships also important. Is a conference championship followed by a losing season better or worse than back to back winning seasons without a championship? Patterson has more losing seasons than Gundy but also more conference titles. How do we judge these things?
Championships also important. Is a conference championship followed by a losing season better or worse than back to back winning seasons without a championship? Patterson has more losing seasons than Gundy but also more conference titles. How do we judge these things?
Patterson has one shared title in 9 years. Gundy has 1 outright in 10 years. OSU has finished above TCU in the conference 6 out of 9 times. OSU has finished 2nd 3 times, TCU once.
Don't know how you exactly quantify good losses, bad losses, good wins and bad wins. One way is the quality of the roster. TCU consistently has a better star-rated roster. If that is in any way meaningful, there's only one way to cut it. OSU has more conference wins in the last year, last 2 years, last 3 years, last 4 years, last 5 yrs, last 6 years, last 8 years and last 9 years. The only span of time OSU hasn't had more wins is the last 7 years when the win totals were exactly the same - 38-25.
Don't know how you exactly quantify good losses, bad losses, good wins and bad wins. One way is the quality of the roster. TCU consistently has a better star-rated roster. If that is in any way meaningful, there's only one way to cut it. OSU has more conference wins in the last year, last 2 years, last 3 years, last 4 years, last 5 yrs, last 6 years, last 8 years and last 9 years. The only span of time OSU hasn't had more wins is the last 7 years when the win totals were exactly the same - 38-25.
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