Baseball Recruiting

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ksupoke

We don't need no, thot kuntrol
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#21
Hopefully not any time soon.

Some will argue that he underachieved. I'd argue that he did the best he could with what he had given the injuries and still developing talent. TCU also dealt with a couple of pitching injuries, but nothing like what we faced. Ask them if they'd trade places with us. TT also lost their own Jensen Elliott early in the year. Where did they finish relative to expectations?

Some on here seem to have short memories and forget that prior to our pitching rotation turning into a MASH unit in 2017, Walton's staffs routinely finished top 2-3 in the league in all the categories you want to be good in. Next year, he should have a full deck (or close to it) for the first time in 2 years, and I won't be surprised if the pitching numbers return to what they once were. I suppose it's possible that Walton just forgot how to be a good pitching coach, but I think the far simpler explanation is that any pitching staff is going to struggle when you're missing 2/3 to possibly your entire weekend rotation.

And, FWIW, that middling pitching coach just coached his third walk-on/lower level recruit to First Team All Big 12.

Not meaning to jump on your post and none of that means the guy is perfect or beyond reproach, but it's not for nothing that pretty much every other team in the country would take him in a heartbeat if they could.

And I'm not sure I totally agree with what you say about talent. If you mean that we were sometimes at a disadvantage when we had guys who wouldn't be aces in a normal year with a healthy team throwing against other teams' #1s, then sure. But you don't get to pitch at OSU if you aren't talented.
I'm going to take umbrage with some of what I've seen posted in this thread and others.
Rant 1
If there are 2 sports where there is no question I wouldn't trade the staff for any other b12 squad it is baseball and wrestling, I'm not talking about fit, I'm talking about trading staff and there is not a single b12 staff I think would make the Cowboys better.

Rant 2
This team was projected 6th out of 9 teams and finished alone in 2nd, I think and thought they were slightly underrated but I did not think they would go 16-8 especially with the loss of arms they have gone through. To say they underachieved is simply asinine. I told @Takeout Slide after last year that I thought the Pokes were poised for a deep run this year (special is the term I used), he has the pm's to verify he said he thought they were maybe a year away but that this year could be a very good year he asked why I thought that, I told him that I thought the Pokes staff (led by RW) would be among the best not just in JH's tenure but in the entire history of OSU baseball - think about it, if Teel was your Sunday guy and JL & JH were your long guys then that staff ranks with any in the country. Unfortunately they were hammered by injury and an ineligible, that's how it works and what did they do, they went out and performed (in conf) well above anyone had a right to expect, underachieved my a%$

Rant 3
I'd be ok with letting RW go, really and replace him with who - Tom House ain't coming to OSU and that's about the only guy out there that would make a staff better, but injuries - bull, that has nothing to do with RW, that has to do with the thousands of innings these kids throw before they get to college, that's also why if a HS pitcher can get any money in the draft he should go, there are only so many innings in an arm and RW maximizes every one of them.

Rant 4

Talent, this team is laden with talent not just arms but offensively as well do they play small ball, no, but I remember just last year and the year before and the year before all the moaning and complaining about all the bunting, ok, they didn't bunt they hit hr's at a league leading pace and scored runs, they, like damn near every other OK St team in the last 50 yrs couldn't hit a salad tosser ok, they went out and hammered most aces, I'll take that over beating the #5 guy on a 3 man rotation every time.

Lastly,

Every time something didn't go their way they took it, they didn't complain (unlike most on this board), they worked that much harder and they got better. They had a rough last 3 weeks of that there is no doubt, I know it would have been great if the other teams didn't try to win but hey that's life the other guy is trying to win as well (crazy ain't it), this team worked hard and improved and that's the sign of a great staff, daubers are going to get down but if they stay down then you have a problem, this team had no such problem.
Being 1500 miles away keeps me from seeing them in person much, fingers crossed for a Stanford regional and I tried, man I tried, to keep up with games on this board but I have to tell you, most of you ran off more Poke fans than a shirtless sooner at Dan's famous Indian tacos.

Finally, enjoy the damned game and quit bitching about everything, these kids (and coaches) deserve your support not your scorn.

End rant
 

Takeout Slide

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#22
Wasn’t referring to talent necessarily. Moreso on the high ERAs, tons of walks, missing catchers target etc. Sometimes you have an off day or can’t find the strike zone. I’m saying for an overview on the season we had several guys seem to not reach their potential. I know we have several out and hurt.

I wasn’t bad mouthing them
Absolutely. I've seen those things as well, but, again, the injuries and their effects have a lot to do with that, IMO.

1) Freshmen and sophomores who are still learning how to pitch instead of throw baseballs past people are having to throw more innings and more key, pressure-type innings than they would otherwise. Take Heasley. When he pitches to contact and has quick innings, he's really good. When he starts trying to paint the corners and strike people out, he falls behind hitters and starts getting into trouble. But that's a mentality he's going to have to develop just like Buffett and Hatch and Perrin and others before him.

2) Arms that are tired are struggling with mechanics and velocity down the stretch and getting into hitter's counts a lot. Take Teel. His effectiveness went down around the start of the Iowa series. That's also when he started to lost control of his fastball because of mechanical issues with his delivery. Two years ago, Jensen Elliott threw 87.1 innings and won 9 games. Even if you were still missing those other arms, just having that production would have made a massive difference.

3) Rob's bench isn't deep with dependable and developed arms (ala 2016 and hopefully next year), and so his hook can't be as quick as it might be otherwise. Ideally, as a pitching coach you come into every season with a core group of developed and dependable upperclassmen who you know you can count on while you bring your newcomers and underclassmen along. This year, 7 out of 9 of Rob's top arms in terms of innings pitched are either underclassmen or are in their first full year of D1.


Here's my bottom line. From 2013-2016, Rob's staffs pretty well dominated the Big 12. In 2017 and 2018, things went south, but that's also when the injury plague began. I'm confident that with a fully healthy staff (and not too many losses to the draft) things will return to normalcy next year. If they don't, those guys who are already ready to put Rob out to pasture can be the first to serve up my crow.
 

RutherfordFan

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#23
Absolutely. I've seen those things as well, but, again, the injuries and their effects have a lot to do with that, IMO.

1) Freshmen and sophomores who are still learning how to pitch instead of throw baseballs past people are having to throw more innings and more key, pressure-type innings than they would otherwise. Take Heasley. When he pitches to contact and has quick innings, he's really good. When he starts trying to paint the corners and strike people out, he falls behind hitters and starts getting into trouble. But that's a mentality he's going to have to develop just like Buffett and Hatch and Perrin and others before him.

2) Arms that are tired are struggling with mechanics and velocity down the stretch and getting into hitter's counts a lot. Take Teel. His effectiveness went down around the start of the Iowa series. That's also when he started to lost control of his fastball because of mechanical issues with his delivery. Two years ago, Jensen Elliott threw 87.1 innings and won 9 games. Even if you were still missing those other arms, just having that production would have made a massive difference.

3) Rob's bench isn't deep with dependable and developed arms (ala 2016 and hopefully next year), and so his hook can't be as quick as it might be otherwise. Ideally, as a pitching coach you come into every season with a core group of developed and dependable upperclassmen who you know you can count on while you bring your newcomers and underclassmen along. This year, 7 out of 9 of Rob's top arms in terms of innings pitched are either underclassmen or are in their first full year of D1.


Here's my bottom line. From 2013-2016, Rob's staffs pretty well dominated the Big 12. In 2017 and 2018, things went south, but that's also when the injury plague began. I'm confident that with a fully healthy staff (and not too many losses to the draft) things will return to normalcy next year. If they don't, those guys who are already ready to put Rob out to pasture can be the first to serve up my crow.
Hey can you name all the pitching injuries we had this year?
 

Takeout Slide

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#24
Hey can you name all the pitching injuries we had this year?
Here are the ones I'm aware of (others may know of more):

Elliott

Scott

Stone - has been out since being injured at ASU in February

Tanner Sparks - redshirting after Tommy John last summer/fall. He was the OK POY in 2017. May pitch or play the field or both, last I heard.

Brett Standlee - ineligible

Aleaziz - missed the Tech series with a back issue. Haven't heard if we'll have him back for the postseason.
 

RutherfordFan

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#25
Thanks! I knew it was insane the amount of pitching injuries. We win the Big 12 and have a shot a title this year I think if we don't have these injuries. This team can hit the baseball. In the coming years I expect to be playing in the national championship 3 game series. Go Cowboys!!
 

ksupoke

We don't need no, thot kuntrol
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#26
Here are the ones I'm aware of (others may know of more):

Elliott

Scott

Stone - has been out since being injured at ASU in February

Tanner Sparks - redshirting after Tommy John last summer/fall. He was the OK POY in 2017. May pitch or play the field or both, last I heard.

Brett Standlee - ineligible

Aleaziz - missed the Tech series with a back issue. Haven't heard if we'll have him back for the postseason.
Elliott #1
Stone/Scott/Teel #'s 2-3 and your midweek guy

JL, JH, and one of the above are your long guys and midweek guys

Now you can mix and match with the pen

Everyone has a role & everyone knows their role

That's an a-one staff and that was what I was expecting this year, didn't happen, now add that to the offensive output and you are looking at, more than likely, a t8 seed.
As is they will end up likely in a 2 maybe 3 seed after being pegged for 6th in the conference, awful man, just awful

BTW texas is playing with fire the way they are using their staff in g1
 

Takeout Slide

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#27
Thanks! I knew it was insane the amount of pitching injuries. We win the Big 12 and have a shot a title this year I think if we don't have these injuries. This team can hit the baseball. In the coming years I expect to be playing in the national championship 3 game series. Go Cowboys!!
I told someone else on here that the way Elliott pitched last Saturday is the best I've ever seen him. Had we had what he showed against TT all year, we'd have won the Big 12 going away, which would still be pretty remarkable when you consider that our weekend staff would still only be 1 or 2/3 of what it would have been if everyone was available.

FWIW, I'm not as bullish on the offense as some, or at least the offensive approach that we saw in the last few series. When they take a gap/line drive approach like we saw vs. TCU and OU, they're pretty stout. When they start trying to elevate everything, they give away a lot of outs. In fact, while the offense certainly saved the pitching staff's bacon and the staff blew some big leads at times, I think, at other times, way too much pressure got put on the staff when we were up there having quick innings with lots of strike outs and fly outs.
 
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ksupoke

We don't need no, thot kuntrol
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Feb 16, 2011
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#28
I told someone else on here that the way Elliott pitched last Saturday is the best I've ever seen him. Had we had what he showed against TT all year, we'd have won the Big 12 going away, which would still be pretty remarkable when you consider that our weekend staff would still only be 1 or 2/3 of what it would have been if everyone was available.

FWIW, I'm not as bullish on the offense as some, or at least the offensive approach that we saw in the last few series. When they take a gap/line drive approach like we saw vs. TCU and OU, they're pretty stout. When they start trying to elevate everything, they give away a lot of outs. In fact, while the offense certainly saved the pitching staff's bacon and the staff blew some big leads at times, I think, at other times, way too much pressure got put on the staff when we were up there having quick innings with lots of strike outs and fly outs.
I don't know if it's being bullish or even agreeing but it is an acknowledgement that the game (all levels) has changed - power and velocity are the primary drivers these days that doesn't mean there's not a place for anything else but that is the, fortunate or unfortunate depending on your pov, reality.

Texas played with fire and got burned, I hope that doesn't happen to the Pokes