Baker Mayfield - The Man, The Myth, The Legend

[OUgradJeff]

Do y'all think Baker will be as good as Mahomes is next year? I don't.

I think Baker will be.

I don’t think Mayfield will have the weapons that Mahomes does. Mahomes inherited a team that has averaged 11 wins per season for 3 years. Baker inherited a team that has averaged 1 win per season over that time period.

Baker’s got one of the worst O-lines in the NFL, and his receivers have led the NFL in dropped passes for most of the year, not to mention many of his receivers have been hurt.

Not that Baker’s played great all year. He’s had some bad games. But a lot of great QBs have had awful rookie seasons, far worse than what Baker is having. Think about Peyton Manning, Jared Goff, Andrew Luck & many others. They all looked bad as rookies on bad teams. Then they proved to be outstanding QBs.

And Baker is by far the best rookie QB in his class so far this season, despite going to by far the worst team. There is a great deal of promise there.

Not that I think Mahomes is a bad QB. I think he’s a very good QB. But he’s also a guy that fell into a great situation on a really good team with play makers all over the field. How many of his TD passes this year have come on TE or RB screens? And he wasn’t asked to lead the team as a rookie. He basically got to learn the system for a year & a half before he took the reins.

But time will tell for all.

 

[OUgradJeff]

except beat baker out.

Mahomes was still in high school when Baker transferred to OU. But thanks for playing.

Also, fun fact: the best year Texas Tech has ever had under Coach Kingsbury, Baker Mayfield was the starting QB the majority of the year. Mahomes never took Tech to as good of a season as Baker did in 2013. Heck, Mahomes only took Tech to 1 bowl game in 3 years.

 

[OUgradJeff]

I’m talking about before the season. Y’all made seem like Baker was surrounded by talent.

The Browns did upgrade their talent at the skill positions over the offseason. However, that’s a matter of perspective. They were historically bad the last two years. Now the talent is better than historically bad (I’d rate them around “pretty OK”). But the Offensive line is still awful & skill positions don’t shine as much when the O-Line is this bad.

And then there was the infighting on the coaching staff with the OC & HC plotting against each other. You think that didn’t have a negative impact on the product on the field?

 

[Duke Silver]

Mahomes was still in high school when Baker transferred to OU. But thanks for playing.

Also, fun fact: the best year Texas Tech has ever had under Coach Kingsbury, Baker Mayfield was the starting QB the majority of the year. Mahomes never took Tech to as good of a season as Baker did in 2013. Heck, Mahomes only took Tech to 1 bowl game in 3 years.

So what you are saying is he got beat out by Davis Webb?

 

[OUgradJeff]

Please help me understand this, he was a superior qb in gooneville because he had great talent around him, but Mahomes was not a superior qb at taco tech because he didn't have great talent around him? Why can't you guys just admit he's not as good Mahomes is right now?

Tech had more success with Baker leading them than when Mahomes led them. That makes the comparison easier

 

[OUgradJeff]

If Cleveland wouldn't have gone out and gotten one of the very best WRs in the league, Mayfield would've been even worse. Jarvis Landry consistently makes him and his stats look artificially decent.

He has plenty of talent around him. More than most Browns teams have had.

I like Jarvis Landry. Solid player. But he’s got a career average of 10 yards per catch, so he’s not exactly Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, Antonio Brown, etc.

And for most of the year, the Browns have been leading the league in dropped passes. So no, his receiving corps has not been particularly helpful to Baker.

 

[OUgradJeff]

So what you are saying is he got beat out by Davis Webb?

I’m saying the Tech HC that isn’t very good at his job.

 

[osuwhit]

The Browns did upgrade their talent at the skill positions over the offseason. However, that’s a matter of perspective. They were historically bad the last two years. Now the talent is better than historically bad (I’d rate them around “pretty OK”). But the Offensive line is still awful & skill positions don’t shine as much when the O-Line is this bad.

And then there was the infighting on the coaching staff with the OC & HC plotting against each other. You think that didn’t have a negative impact on the product on the field?

No. That stuff doesn't bother Baker.

 

[OUgradJeff]

No. That stuff doesn't bother Baker.

Baker’s not the only player on the team & on the field. If any players are affected, the whole team is affected.

 

[osuwhit]

Baker’s not the only player on the team & on the field. If any players are affected, the whole team is affected.

I don't care if Cleveland wins or loses every game for the rest of their eternity as a football team. The topic I brought up was Baker Mayfield vs Patrick Mahomes. I don't think Baker will ever be the better pro over Mahomes. Mahomes is the best.

 

[OUgradJeff]

I don't care if Cleveland wins or loses every game for the rest of their eternity as a football team. The topic I brought up was Baker Mayfield vs Patrick Mahomes. I don't think Baker will ever be the better pro over Mahomes. Mahomes is the best.

Awesome that you’re so certain of that so early in both of their careers.

I’m not certain either way. Time will tell, but it may take 15-20 years.

They both seem to be very good QBs, but in vastly different circumstances.

But I am certain that I would take Baker every day over Mahomes. Mahomes, while an excellent QB skill-wise, has just never showed leadership skills that we’ve seen Baker show over & over & over again, not to mention the excellent QB skills he’s shown at 2 colleges & now the NFL.

Look at it this way:
- the year before Mahomes became Tech’s QB, Tech went to a bowl game.
- the year after Mahomes left, Tech went to a bowl game.
- In Mahomes 3 years, Tech failed to qualify for a bowl game twice.

Baker vastly improved OU & now the Browns.

 

[OUgradJeff]

I don't care if Cleveland wins or loses every game for the rest of their eternity as a football team. The topic I brought up was Baker Mayfield vs Patrick Mahomes. I don't think Baker will ever be the better pro over Mahomes. Mahomes is the best.

Oh, and I replied to a specific post of yours. So kind of weird to tell me that wasn’t your point when it was the entire content of that specific post that I was specifically replying to.

I tend to reply to specific posts rather than to topics in general. It helps both sides keep on track & for everyone to understand to what I am referring & to whom I am replying. So I’ve probably addressed other points you’ve made in specific posts with a specific reply.

I hope that is helpful!

 

[osuwhit]

Awesome that you’re so certain of that so early in both of their careers.

I’m not certain either way. Time will tell, but it may take 15-20 years.

They both seem to be very good QBs, but in vastly different circumstances.

But I am certain that I would take Baker every day over Mahomes. Mahomes, while an excellent QB skill-wise, has just never showed leadership skills that we’ve seen Baker show over & over & over again, not to mention the excellent QB skills he’s shown at 2 colleges & now the NFL.

Look at it this way:
- the year before Mahomes became Tech’s QB, Tech went to a bowl game.
- the year after Mahomes left, Tech went to a bowl game.
- In Mahomes 3 years, Tech failed to qualify for a bowl game twice.

Baker vastly improved OU & now the Browns.

This is a really weird argument from you.. You don't think Mahomes has shown he has leadership skills. How is that? Are you not watching him this year?

Next, Tech not making a bowl under Mahomes is a horrible way to judge him as a QB. Mahomes put up huge numbers at Tech and wasn't the reason they lost games. Put Mahomes on OU during the Baker years and he probably wins the Heisman more times than Baker did.

 

[osuwhit]

Oh, and I replied to a specific post of yours. So kind of weird to tell me that wasn’t your point when it was the entire content of that specific post that I was specifically replying to.

I tend to reply to specific posts rather than to topics in general. It helps both sides keep on track & for everyone to understand to what I am referring & to whom I am replying. So I’ve probably addressed other points you’ve made in specific posts with a specific reply.

I hope that is helpful!

Eh.. sort of.

 

[Midnight Toker]

When Mayfield gets some talent around him he is fully capable of putting up gaudy numbers too, we've all seen it. When he gets some real good talent around him this will be a much better conversation. What the chiefs are doing now is pretty epic though so it's really not fair to compare Mahomes' production in that offense with what Mayfield is working with. They'll both be pro bowlers in their career though I bet.

 

[OUgradJeff]

This is a really weird argument from you.. You don't think Mahomes has shown he has leadership skills. How is that? Are you not watching him this year?

Next, Tech not making a bowl under Mahomes is a horrible way to judge him as a QB. Mahomes put up huge numbers at Tech and wasn't the reason they lost games. Put Mahomes on OU during the Baker years and he probably wins the Heisman more times than Baker did.

Correct. Mahomes landed on an outstanding team & so far hasn’t screwed it up. Good on him. We’ll see how the rest of the season plays out for the Chiefs. But KC thus far really hasn’t done much. Last night was a huge game & Mahomes had 5 turnovers in a losing cause.

Baker has the ability to elevate his teammates. He took a team with no defense to the playoffs & darn near got OU to the promised land. OU had no business competing for a national championship last year with a defense that awful & a brand new offensive supporting cast (OU lost Perine & Mixon & Westbrook and replaced them with guys with zero experience, many were True Freshman) & yet Baker got them to the playoffs. If not for Baker having the flu, OU beats Georgia. Baker just ran out of gas.

Mahomes immediate predecessor & successor at QBs have led Tech to equal or better results than Mahomes did. We saw what Baker could do as a True Freshman with Tech talent. Lead them Kingsbury’s best season. That’s leadership. That’s elevating teammates more than Mahomes ever did. That’s what makes the comparison so incredibly easy. We know exactly how Baker would have done with Tech talent: win more games. And he did it as a True Freshman. Easy comparison.

 

[osuwhit]

Mahomes immediate predecessor & successor at QBs have led Tech to equal or better results than Mahomes did. We saw what Baker could do as a True Freshman with Tech talent. Lead them Kingsbury’s best season. That’s leadership. That’s elevating teammates more than Mahomes ever did. That’s what makes the comparison so incredibly easy. We know exactly how Baker would have done with Tech talent: win more games. And he did it as a True Freshman. Easy comparison.

Comparing different seasons on different Tech teams is pretty apples and oranges. Baker won 8 games on a better Tech team, one could argue. Mahomes won 7 on another and took them to a bowl which you don't seem to realize since you said Mahomes had never taken tech to a bowl game. You might look into 2015.

This is all besides the point though. Baker had a better college career. Everyone knows that and it shouldn't be used as an indicator as to who will have the better pro career. Right now, Mahomes is the #1 QB and arguably the best in the NFL.

Before I go any further, why don't I just stop and ask you this.. Kendal Hunter had a better college career than Demarco Murray. Would you have argued that Hunter would be a better prior to their draft?

 

[OUgradJeff]

Comparing different seasons on different Tech teams is pretty apples and oranges. Baker won 8 games on a better Tech team, one could argue. Mahomes won 7 on another and took them to a bowl which you don't seem to realize since you said Mahomes had never taken tech to a bowl game. You might look into 2015.

This is all besides the point though. Baker had a better college career. Everyone knows that and it shouldn't be used as an indicator as to who will have the better pro career. Right now, Mahomes is the #1 QB and arguably the best in the NFL.

Before I go any further, why don't I just stop and ask you this.. Kendal Hunter had a better college career than Demarco Murray. Would you have argued that Hunter would be a better prior to their draft?

It’s a far more apples to apples comparison than your repeated comparisons of “what could Mahomes have done with OU talent? He would have won multiple Heismans blah blah blah...”. But when you can see exactly what Baker could do with Tech talent compared to Mahomes, then it’s apples to oranges? Strange logic.

I never said that Mahomes never took Tech to a bowl game. I explicitly have stated that he failed to do so twice (our of three years) which is 100% accurate. I also said that Baker led Tech to it’s best season under Kingsbury & that the QBs immediately before & after Mahomes had equal or better seasons than Mahomes was able to produce (8 wins & a bowl in 2013, 6 wins &!- bowl in 2017 compared to 4, 7 & 5 wins & 1 total bowl game). Which are also factual statements. You think Tech had a dip in talent from 2014-2016 but we’re much more talented in 2013 & 2017? If Mahomes was as great as you think he is, he should have taken Tech to more bowl games & more wins. Other QBs did.

Demarco Murray was always the better RB than Kendall Hunter. Hunter had a better college career because he stayed healthy. Murray didn’t.

 

[andylicious]

Tech had more success with Baker leading them than when Mahomes led them. That makes the comparison easier

Not so much

 

[Rob B.]

End of the day, Mahomes can outrun fat Arkansas cops, Mayfield can't....