Athlon rates Big XII coaches

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Jostate

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#41
Gundy has more upsets against him than for him. Your comment that he has upset teams many times yet isn’t upset that often is comical.

Without looking it up, I’m pretty sure in all of our losses last year we were favored.....and I’m confident we were double digit favorites in 2 of those. And I’m pretty sure we didn’t beat anyone we should not have. So big FAIL on your part.
That's because we are favored in the overwhelming majority of our games. Get one of your friends to explain the math to you.
 

StillwaterMan

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#42
Snider was the best of the bunch, but now he is 3-4. Whipped Gundy's ass this year, but we generally get the best of them. He is not the #1 coach in the Big 12 anymore. He reached that status before he retired and never regained it. #3 is about right.

Herman belongs behind Holgerson and Montgomery. Texas was the biggest disappointment in the Big 12 last year....yes even more so that OSU.
 

Jostate

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Snider was the best of the bunch, but now he is 3-4. Whipped Gundy's ass this year, but we generally get the best of them. He is not the #1 coach in the Big 12 anymore. He reached that status before he retired and never regained it. #3 is about right.

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Whoever you put at 1 and 2 couldn't have touched what Snyder has accomplished in Manhattan KS.

In 93 years of K State football history before Snyder they went to 1 bowl game and had 0 top 20 AP finishes.

Since Snyder's tenure they have been to 21 bowl games and finished in the AP top 20 13 times. They missed a few in those years when he tried to retire and they begged him to come back.

He's 78 years old, just shook off cancer like a cold, and don't be surprised if they finish top 25 again and go to a decent bowl. Riley, Gundy, etc could not have done that.
 

StillwaterMan

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#44
Whoever you put at 1 and 2 couldn't have touched what Snyder has accomplished in Manhattan KS.

In 93 years of K State football history before Snyder they went to 1 bowl game and had 0 top 20 AP finishes.

Since Snyder's tenure they have been to 21 bowl games and finished in the AP top 20 13 times. They missed a few in those years when he tried to retire and they begged him to come back.

He's 78 years old, just shook off cancer like a cold, and don't be surprised if they finish top 25 again and go to a decent bowl. Riley, Gundy, etc could not have done that.
All of this is I agree with. I just don't think he is the best of the bunch today. KSU is not running at the level they did Snyder's pre-retirement years or his early post retirement years. They are just no longer competing for titles like they once did.
 

Jostate

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All of this is I agree with. I just don't think he is the best of the bunch today. KSU is not running at the level they did Snyder's pre-retirement years or his early post retirement years. They are just no longer competing for titles like they once did.
We talk about the disadvantages of recruiting to Stillwater. Manhattan is even tougher. As much as the purple Wizard does miraculous things, it's a tall order to keep them on par with conference leaders. Again I would like to see Riley compete for a conference championship in Manhattan. It's hard to know, but I would bet against it.
 

More Cowbell

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#46
Can't tell if serious.

Have Gundy's team been upset? Yes, but not that often. Has he upset other teams? Yes, many many times.
Gundy has more upsets against him than for him. Your comment that he has upset teams many times yet isn’t upset that often is comical.

Without looking it up, I’m pretty sure in all of our losses last year we were favored.....and I’m confident we were double digit favorites in 2 of those. And I’m pretty sure we didn’t beat anyone we should not have. So big FAIL on your part.
You do realize Gundy has been our coach for over a decade, not just last year...right? Fail.

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#47
That's because we are favored in the overwhelming majority of our games. Get one of your friends to explain the math to you.
If you were smart enough I wouldn’t have to explain this to you, but obviously you aren’t so here goes. Of course we are going to be favored in the majority of our games when we schedule as many cupcakes as Gundy can along with the rest of the Big 12 being not so good except one team(yet we always lose to others).

The point remains, Gundy will lose to someone basically every year that has no business being in the game yet he rarely beats anyone when we are clearly underdogs. He just can’t win vs the Big Dawgs outside one year.

Thank goodness we only had to play VT in a bowl because USC or someone similar would have made Gundy look like a chump once again. That Ole Miss game a few years back was just flat out embarrassing.....let alone CMU.
 
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#48
You do realize Gundy has been our coach for over a decade, not just last year...right? Fail.

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Yes I do. Just because I didn’t go back further to prove more doesn’t mean it isn’t true. I probably could produce bad losses in every 5 out of 6 years Gundy has coached. Yes he has had some very good wins where we were maybe a 5 point dog at most but not many and probably zero where we were more than 5 point dog yet I can produce plenty of evidence showing us being a big favorite and losing. That’s my point. He will never beat anyone he isn’t supposed to. He just isn’t a good enough coach yet so many other coaches with lessor talented teams do it all the time.
 

Jostate

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If you were smart enough I wouldn’t have to explain this to you, but obviously you aren’t so here goes. Of course we are going to be favored in the majority of our games when we schedule as many cupcakes as Gundy can along with the rest of the Big 12 being not so good except one team(yet we always lose to others).

The point remains, Gundy will lose to someone basically every year that has no business being in the game yet he rarely beats anyone when we are clearly underdogs. He just can’t win vs the Big Dawgs outside one year.

Thank goodness we only had to play VT in a bowl because USC or someone similar would have made Gundy look like a chump once again. That Ole Miss game a few years back was just flat out embarrassing.....let alone CMU.
Gundy is 8-4 in bowl games. That's better than most.

To use a team you either like, or have a complex about, I'll compare to OU.

In the last 4 years they lost to an 8 - 5 Iowa Sate, Houston, a 5 - 7 UT, and OSU in our worst year in the last 5 years. That's a bad loss 4 years in a row. In that time they pulled off almost no upsets. Why? Because they are rarely an underdog.

Bitch and moan, bitch and moan, unless we win every game you can always have something to cry about. Get ready, because one of these days you are going to have to watch us playing on Gundy field in BPS. You can be the crazy old guy out front yelling at everyone how Gundy really sucks, and how "Chemtrails" are being used by the gubmint to poison our minds, or something.
 
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#50
Gundy is 8-4 in bowl games. That's better than most.

To use a team you either like, or have a complex about, I'll compare to OU.

In the last 4 years they lost to an 8 - 5 Iowa Sate, Houston, a 5 - 7 UT, and OSU in our worst year in the last 5 years. That's a bad loss 4 years in a row. In that time they pulled off almost no upsets. Why? Because they are rarely an underdog.

Bitch and moan, bitch and moan, unless we win every game you can always have something to cry about. Get ready, because one of these days you are going to have to watch us playing on Gundy field in BPS. You can be the crazy old guy out front yelling at everyone how Gundy really sucks, and how "Chemtrails" are being used by the gubmint to poison our minds, or something.
Since you brought it up as you obv must have the little brother syndrome
2013 we were favored at home. Clearly outcoached and lost with a chance to go to a BCS bowl

2014 we had the gift from Stoops. All while during the game chat I said numerous times we would go to OT and win even though we were clearly getting handled. Gundy’s only upset....thank you Tyreek

2015 We got crushed at home while we were ranked #11. Another poor coaching job led to the debacle trying to play an injured QB yet again. We were a 6.5 dog at game time. That’s over the realm that Gundy could overcome hence the beat down.

2016 we were big dogs on the road and were playing great until we let them score right before half. We subsequently return the KO to midfield with a timeout and with 18 seconds or so we decide to run the clock out. We subsequently get blown out. Another horrible coaching job

2017 at home we were the fav and of course we lost again. Had a chance to save face and get over a hump vs a first year coach at home with arguably our best team ever

During that time....OU has made 2 CFPs. Something Gundy will never do. Please don’t compare anything we do to OU ever again.

The major difference is coaching to win vs coaching to keep it close. Gundy is not a Championship coach and relies heavily on beating up lesser teams. He will never win anything.

2013. We were ranked #11 and looked terrible at WV and lost. We were a 6pt fav

2014 We we’re embarrassed 5 games in a row including against a bad UT team. This guy can’t gameplan unless he has the better team. We looked horrible during that stretch and decided to run up the gut almost every play. Took him all year to figure out the best QB was a freshman. Terrible job

2015 Good year before closing up shop when we played the good teams. We’re lucky to squeak out wins vs less than avg KSU and ISU. Got up to top 5 and like clockwork lost last 3 games. Embarrassed in the bowl

2016. Lost to an absolute horrible CMU. Enough said.

2017. Lost 3 games at home as favorites.

So....looks like things are getting worse. I wouldnt be surprised if we lose 4-5 games in conference this year as the schedule isn’t in our favor like last year. Damn what a wasted opportunity we had last year. No wonder this guy can’t get top recruits. He has proven over and over that he folds in crunch time. Not only have we missed out on capitalizing on BCS opportunities and CFP hopes, this joker of a coach flirts with other jobs every damn year. Just get out already and let us move onward with someone who isn’t scared in big games.
 
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#52
lol when losing at Morgantown is considered a "bad loss." Baylor has never won there, and got drubbed there when they were 12-1 and blew out almost everyone else they played. Auburn stupidly fired its coach for losing there in very cold weather. Rutgers has never won there and we played them every year for like 100 years. cant recall last time Terps won in morgantown-the same terps that drubbed UT in austin last year...

So say what you will, gundy winning 2 of last 3 in morgantown is pretty good feat. VT is a solid team. beating them in a bowl is a big deal. Ole miss had an nfl roster full of illegally paid players. Gundy is a top level coach-you'll find that out when he leaves.
 

Midnight Toker

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#53
Gundy is a fine coach, nobody can dispute that. He's been in this game for a long time, he's been a HC for 13 seasons, and he is established. That said, I am not sure he has any more tricks up his sleeve. You can expect osu to be competitive most years, to recruit top 20-30 classes, to beat OU maybe 20% of the time, maybe win the big 12 once or twice in a decade, and occasionally have that 1 loss season. For most schools that's really quite good and about as much as you can hope for. For a program like Osu, who isnt a blue blood, i think that's about as good as you could ever expect with consistency. And Gundy is the perfect guy for that. I thikn he can keep this train rolling as it is for a while. So if this is all Osu fans expect/want out of Osu football then you guys are set. But if you want to win a few more big 12 rings, to make the playoffs, to recruit some top 10 classes then they may need to upgrade the HC
 

Jostate

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#54
Gundy is a fine coach, nobody can dispute that. He's been in this game for a long time, he's been a HC for 13 seasons, and he is established. That said, I am not sure he has any more tricks up his sleeve. You can expect osu to be competitive most years, to recruit top 20-30 classes, to beat OU maybe 20% of the time, maybe win the big 12 once or twice in a decade, and occasionally have that 1 loss season. For most schools that's really quite good and about as much as you can hope for. For a program like Osu, who isnt a blue blood, i think that's about as good as you could ever expect with consistency. And Gundy is the perfect guy for that. I thikn he can keep this train rolling as it is for a while. So if this is all Osu fans expect/want out of Osu football then you guys are set. But if you want to win a few more big 12 rings, to make the playoffs, to recruit some top 10 classes then they may need to upgrade the HC
Gundy may continue to grow too. He doesn't have to transform into an entire new person, just continue to learn and try new things. We will be forced to make a change some day, and as you guys know, there is more potential downside in those changes often than upside.

Not to turn this into a B&F thing but I learned some stuff I didn't know in that article about John Blake throwing the race card at you guys. Which BTW is not the only time he has played that card in his career. We all know Schnelly was a jack wagon, turns out Blake was too behind the scenes.
 

Rack

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Since you brought it up as you obv must have the little brother syndrome
2013 we were favored at home. Clearly outcoached and lost with a chance to go to a BCS bowl
That one shouldn't have happened..certainly we got out coached in that game...I'll give you that one
but after that we went and won our bowl...granted it was a stupid bowl to be in...but it was a bowl, something we used to nearly never make prior to Gundy.


2014 we had the gift from Stoops. All while during the game chat I said numerous times we would go to OT and win even though we were clearly getting handled. Gundy’s only upset....thank you Tyreek...His only BEDLAM upset...not his only upset...not even close.

2015 We got crushed at home while we were ranked #11. Another poor coaching job led to the debacle trying to play an injured QB yet again. We were a 6.5 dog at game time. That’s over the realm that Gundy could overcome hence the beat down. That one sucked...especially since ou was starting a woman beater whom beat us up like a girl in that game.

2016 we were big dogs on the road and were playing great until we let them score right before half. We subsequently return the KO to midfield with a timeout and with 18 seconds or so we decide to run the clock out. We subsequently get blown out. Another horrible coaching job...OU is everything to you...yet you tell everyone not to compare them to us...Certainly the 2016 game wasn't a good one...it happens, but it's NOT the norm..even in this rivalry they are typically very close under Gundy....which is a major change from the past when we lost bad 9 of 10 years.

2017 at home we were the fav and of course we lost again. Had a chance to save face and get over a hump vs a first year coach at home with arguably our best team ever...we had very little defense and got a lousy reversal on a call early in the game that would have put us up 14-3 and likely changed the complexion of the game completely...plus it wasn't our best team defensively...offensively, yes. Btw, Gundy let his DC go at the end of the year...mostly due to that game.

During that time....OU has made 2 CFPs. Something Gundy will never do. Please don’t compare anything we do to OU ever again.
We would have most definitely been in the CFP under Gundy in 2011 (had it existed). We finished the year ranked 2nd in many polls and 3rd in the majority. We beat OU that year...and bad. NO reason we can't do that again with Mike Gundy as coach...none.

The major difference is coaching to win vs coaching to keep it close. Gundy is not a Championship coach and relies heavily on beating up lesser teams. He will never win anything. Except for so many bowls that he has already won (more than any coach in our history)...and the Big 12 Conference that he has already won (more than any coach in our history again)...and a BCS bowl game (you guessed it ,more than any coach in our history). Honestly, you are a sad sack sorry excuse for a "fan" if you can't enjoy those victories and only dwell on defeats.

2013. We were ranked #11 and looked terrible at WV and lost. We were a 6pt fav...
We have also won twice @ WVU, likely once when we weren't favored.

2014 We we’re embarrassed 5 games in a row including against a bad UT team. This guy can’t gameplan unless he has the better team. We looked horrible during that stretch and decided to run up the gut almost every play. Took him all year to figure out the best QB was a freshman. Terrible job,, UNTIL Bedlam where we pulled off a remarkable upset when we were a more than 2 score dog...and in the bowl where we wiped the floor with a solid soon to be CFP playoff team in Washington.

2015 Good year before closing up shop when we played the good teams. We’re lucky to squeak out wins vs less than avg KSU and ISU. Got up to top 5 and like clockwork lost last 3 games. Embarrassed in the bowl...Everyone gets embarrassed when they have so many injuries and they are playing a team that has so many bought and paid for players...Heck, I think Ole Miss maybe had to abandon that win as a part of their penalty from the NCAA.

2016. Lost to an absolute horrible CMU. Enough said. Actually...we didn't lose by the rule book...counts as one though and it never should have been close..so yeah it wasn't a great game.

2017. Lost 3 games at home as favorites. YET won 100% of his road games, including FIVE in a row VS Texas, something no other coach in the country current or past has EVER done...and beat a decent Virginia Tech in a bowl.

So....looks like things are getting worse. I wouldnt be surprised if we lose 4-5 games in conference this year as the schedule isn’t in our favor like last year. Damn what a wasted opportunity we had last year. No wonder this guy can’t get top recruits. He has proven over and over that he folds in crunch time. Not only have we missed out on capitalizing on BCS opportunities and CFP hopes, this joker of a coach flirts with other jobs every damn year. Just get out already and let us move onward with someone who isn’t scared in big games. This is a moronic statement with so little understanding of where we have come from and nearly the only person who has been involved in our modern football success is the guy you want to get rid of...that's just plain stupid...Plus, while he has "flirted with other jobs" he has stayed loyal to Oklahoma State and is still on our sideline, having turned down historically better jobs for ours...IMHO, he's our best ever coach and has only had, in my opinion, ONE bad year, his first one...Also, I'm willing to bet we win 8-10 games again in 2018 despite our personnel losses, you are crazy to think we lose 4 or 5 conference games...that is how good this program has become under Gundy...when we lose our best two players at their positions in our history, some of us don't expect too big of a fall off...In fact I will be disappointed if we don't win 9.
 
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Midnight Toker

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#56
Gundy may continue to grow too. He doesn't have to transform into an entire new person, just continue to learn and try new things. We will be forced to make a change some day, and as you guys know, there is more potential downside in those changes often than upside.

Not to turn this into a B&F thing but I learned some stuff I didn't know in that article about John Blake throwing the race card at you guys. Which BTW is not the only time he has played that card in his career. We all know Schnelly was a jack wagon, turns out Blake was too behind the scenes.
Yeah, well, it's been 12 years. How much longer do you think he'll need before he sprouts those wings? Maybe he just needs better assistants. Stoops wasnt cutting it any longer despite being a HOFer, he had to shake things up and fire people and hire good ones in replacement. Things really started looking better after that. I think after this much time has passed, we have a good idea of what to expect out of Gundy. I heard about the blake thing and he tried to turn his mediocre ability has a HC into a race thing and i'm glad it didnt go that way, because clearly the guy wasnt ready ,and as it turns out, not HC material.
 

More Cowbell

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#58
Yeah, well, it's been 12 years. How much longer do you think he'll need before he sprouts those wings? Maybe he just needs better assistants. Stoops wasnt cutting it any longer despite being a HOFer, he had to shake things up and fire people and hire good ones in replacement. Things really started looking better after that. I think after this much time has passed, we have a good idea of what to expect out of Gundy. I heard about the blake thing and he tried to turn his mediocre ability has a HC into a race thing and i'm glad it didnt go that way, because clearly the guy wasnt ready ,and as it turns out, not HC material.
How many years do you give Riley holding the status quo before he needs to "shake things up"? Surely being the blue blood you are, you expect a championship every couple of decades?
 

Midnight Toker

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#59
How many years do you give Riley holding the status quo before he needs to "shake things up"? Surely being the blue blood you are, you expect a championship every couple of decades?
He's doing a fantastic job of keeping them in contention. He stays on this path and they will win one soon. He learned from Stoops' mistakes and is recruiting the elite talent that OU seemed like they couldnt get anymore. Bob was doing great for a while until that stopped for a few years and he shook it up and look what happened. So, as I was pointing out earlier, Gundy could also shake things up and change fortunes. The DC hire could be a fine first step.
 
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#60
riley choked away the game against UGA. he got cold feet and tried to run out clock despite having the top qb in the country. at best he is 5th behind snyder, gundy, patterson and holgy.