2020 election thread

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wrenhal

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And I will always say fraud is an issue. With what we catch, you can guarantee there's a bunch we don't. And ballot harvesting accounts for a large amount of that.

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So, back to this.
How does that square with you saying we should get rid of mail-in voting (if I understand that’s what you mean by “I’m saying both”)? Lindsey Graham and Marco Rubio both disagree.

I'm saying both. Fraud and errors increase when you increase mail in voting. You overwhelm the system that is not setup to handle this process. Logistics can help some of it, but security is hard to come by when you lose chain of custody too easily. Absentee ballots should be allowed to continue, but in person voting with security measures should always be the goal for 90-95% of the votes.
Personally I don't agree with them in the fact that it might hurt GOP candidates. You know why because I think it's going to encourage anybody that wants to support GOP candidates to show up in person. To vote in person and make sure there are no problems with making sure their votes are counted.

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Brad M

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My point was that mail in voting has been proven to be a safe and secure form of voting. Wrenhal changed his long tirade that it increases fraud to an issue with votes not counting. I mentioned it shows they are catching issues, which reinforces it being secure. When I said “it’s not fraud” he's changing the narrative from fraud to votes being rejected because mail in voting is actually secure.
Are you using “mail in” and “absentee” interchangeably? To me, they are very different but maybe I’m looking at it wrong. To me, absentee is an individual requesting a ballot because he won’t be able to vote in person on Election Day. The way I understand “mail in” is the ballots are automatically mailed in mass to registered voters to be filled out and mailed in or discarded if the person is going to vote in person. I see mail in as way more susceptible to chicanery, especially if ballots aren’t watermarked in some way.
 

wrenhal

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They get people to vote in person and people will stand all day in lines to do it
Gee whiz. We don’t want to make people stand all day in line. Now we’re getting into voter suppression which has shown to be a bigger issue than fraud. Once again, I’ll ask what your end goal is. I don’t get what you’re trying to accomplish. Not even Rubio and Graham agree with you.
I could care less what they think. I honestly think they're trying to downplay things because they think that it's going to hurt Trump. But I believe that they honestly know that fraud does occur and that it increases exponentially with the increase in mail-in ballots. I've seen undercover video where they have talked to people who do ballot harvesting of absentee ballots. It occurs and doesn't get caught. My end goal is to secure our elections. To make sure that everybody's vote counts for those that want to vote and it only counts once. It is doable. And I'm sorry but if millions of people in third world countries can get out and stand in line to vote in person, then Americans can as well. That is not voter suppression. And I will say again, yes there are reasons why absentee ballots are available and can be used. They are different than mass mailing ballots. I would think this would be something that we could all agree upon. That making sure everybody's votes count would be of the utmost importance.

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Brad M

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It may be semantics, but he literally compared it to slavery. Basically said it was #2 to slavery. Most people would say it has been nothing close to that kind of atrocity. I think that is where the outrage is coming from.

I think what you meant was he didn’t equate it to slavery. But he technically compared them.

Here’s the quote:

“You know, putting a national lock down, stay at home orders, is like house arrest. Other than slavery, which was a different kind of restraint, this is the greatest intrusion on civil liberties in American history.”
Yes, semantics. On a scale of 1-10, he put slavery at 10 and the lockdown at less than 10. The outrage is coming from people saying he put the lockdown also at 10.
 

okstate987

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Yes, semantics. On a scale of 1-10, he put slavery at 10 and the lockdown at less than 10. The outrage is coming from people saying he put the lockdown also at 10.
No, that is not why people are outraged. He rated the lockdown as the second largest intrusion of civil liberties in US history while ignoring the following:
- The trail of tears
- Japanese Internment Camps
- Mass spying and privacy intrusions done by his own office

Its just a laughable assertion, especially coming from him.
 
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Brad M

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No, that is not why people are outraged. He rated the lockdown as the second largest intrusion of civil liberties in US history while ignoring the following:
- The trail of tears
- Japanese Internment Camps
- Mass spying and privacy intrusions done by his own office

Its just a laughable assertion, especially coming from him.
This is the type of weak minded outrage I'm talking about:
Clyburn, the No. 3 Democrat in the House and its highest-ranking Black member, told CNN's John Berman on "New Day." "It is incredible that (the) chief law enforcement officer in this country would equate human bondage to expert advice to save lives.

He did not equate it to slavery. Period.
 
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I personally wouldn't call it the 2nd biggest intrusion on civil liberties in our history but it's arguably up there in that discussion somewhere. Obviously it doesn't come anywhere close to slavery and nobody is saying it does.

Think about it, you have had millions and millions of people being told they are not allowed to work, not allowed to go to church, not allowed to leave their house for anything but groceries. Anybody who thinks this is not that big a deal has a different definition of liberty than I do.
To me the bigger problem is how do you balance Liberty w Life? The lockdown or quarantine saved lives. At the state & federal level is was and still is being horribly managed and that speaks to leadership. Blue, Red, Purple & Tangerine. It was a CF and still is. The conversation should be happening right now regardless of party n how to deal w this if it surges or another virus hits. We just handed the blue print to every foreign adversary on how to spend Minimal dollars and bring the us to its knees. Is it a blessing that this virus Has a mortality rate of somewhere between 0.1 & 3%? Can you imagine if one clicked in north of 10% and we have people who think shopping at target without a mask is more important than their next door neighbor living?
 

TheMonkey

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This is the type of weak minded outrage I'm talking about:
Clyburn, the No. 3 Democrat in the House and its highest-ranking Black member, told CNN's John Berman on "New Day." "It is incredible that (the) chief law enforcement officer in this country would equate human bondage to expert advice to save lives.

He did not equate it to slavery. Period.
Is it weak minded to say Barr didn’t compare it to slavery? I think this is just as much an exercise in semantics. He used the word “equate” instead of “compare.” You used the word “compare” instead of “equate.”

Calling Clyburn weak minded for essentially doing the same thing you did is hypocritical.
 

Brad M

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Is it weak minded to say Barr didn’t compare it to slavery? I think this is just as much an exercise in semantics. He used the word “equate” instead of “compare.” You used the word “compare” instead of “equate.”
I agreed with you that to say compare instead of equate was semantics!
geez! To use the line you used, “Lighten up Francis”. Compare is accurate, equate is NOT!
 

CocoCincinnati

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To me the bigger problem is how do you balance Liberty w Life? The lockdown or quarantine saved lives.
The internment of Japanese Americans by FDR was supposedly to save lives as well. Similar reasons for Lincoln's suspension of habeus corpus and for the Patriot act after 9/11. Safety, security, life, etc.

The blueprint given here is how the government can scare the US populace into giving up their freedom. Any enemy wanting to bring the US to it's knees has learned they would have to suffer through the same thing because these kind of things are global.

You can argue it's a balancing act to save lives all you want and it might even be practical.....But it is STILL an infringement on civil liberties and one of the most wide spread examples of it in our history. If you believe it is to save lives then you should be equally as critical of people assembling for protests as you are of people assembling for church. Maybe you are, I don't know.
 

Binman4OSU

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Stupid about AGW!!
You keep posting these like you think it either means something or will change someones mind. I can do something similar. "Black guy who works for Trump and spoke at the RNC about what a great guy he is will vote for him."
high ranking Republican officials serving in Trump's appointees offices are bailing on Trump and publicly coming forward for Biden and exposing what they claim they have seen first hand from Trump

This isn't "Sources say" this isn't "Dem opperatives" This isn't "Deep State" This isn't "Swamp Creatures"

These are people that Trump's own hand picked appointees have hired to be the top people in their staff and they have LITERALLY formed their own Republican only Anti Trump group.

But yeah....No big Deal
 

oldguy

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high ranking Republican officials serving in Trump's appointees offices are bailing on Trump and publicly coming forward for Biden and exposing what they claim they have seen first hand from Trump

This isn't "Sources say" this isn't "Dem opperatives" This isn't "Deep State" This isn't "Swamp Creatures"

These are people that Trump's own hand picked appointees have hired to be the top people in their staff and they have LITERALLY formed their own Republican only Anti Trump group.

But yeah....No big Deal
You can't seriously believe anyone is changing their vote because of this.
 

pokes16

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high ranking Republican officials serving in Trump's appointees offices are bailing on Trump and publicly coming forward for Biden and exposing what they claim they have seen first hand from Trump

This isn't "Sources say" this isn't "Dem opperatives" This isn't "Deep State" This isn't "Swamp Creatures"

These are people that Trump's own hand picked appointees have hired to be the top people in their staff and they have LITERALLY formed their own Republican only Anti Trump group.

But yeah....No big Deal
So one of the big "look this former Trump appointee is voting for Biden" guys is Gen Mattis. Gee I wonder why... Maybe because he gets rich off perpetual war?...


This time around, the role played by spies in the 2016 election is being filled by former senior Pentagon officials, including James Mattis, Trump’s one-time defense secretary. In June, Mattis wrote an article—in the Atlantic—likening Trump to the Nazis for wanting to dispatch the military to protect the lives, homes, and businesses of American voters.

Gen. Mattis is no stranger to Silicon Valley or its scandals. As head of U.S. Central Command, the four-star Marine general pushed for the products of one Silicon Valley startup to be used on wounded Americans in uniform, and after retiring he won a lucrative seat on the board of the same company, Theranos, which turned out to be the biggest fraud in the history of biotech.