13 killed including a LEO in a bar shooting in California

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Jul 20, 2018
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#21
Then what do you and kaboy want? Do you want all events at places where people gather to be banned unless at least one armed guard is provided? Or do you all think we have no other choice than to continue to live with mass shootings? It's all a part of what goes with living with the 2nd Amendment and overall, it's a very, very good Amendment.

I don't see how you are supposed to stop a shooter ahead of time any more than you can stop a pregnant woman determined to get an abortion.
Why not allow concealed carry in the night club? If someone is shooting at me, I'd like to be able to shoot back.
 
May 31, 2007
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#22
Then what do you and kaboy want? Do you want all events at places where people gather to be banned unless at least one armed guard is provided? Or do you all think we have no other choice than to continue to live with mass shootings? It's all a part of what goes with living with the 2nd Amendment and overall, it's a very, very good Amendment.

I don't see how you are supposed to stop a shooter ahead of time any more than you can stop a pregnant woman determined to get an abortion.
Seems to be a mental health issue more than anything. And I’m not a gun guy. You can take away people’s guns and that won’t bother me or change my life one bit. But I doubt that solves the problem. This shooting appears to prove that assault rifles aren’t necessarily the problem. So if getting rid of some guns is the answer, then I think you have to accept that getting rid of all guns is the only way it will solve anything. But even as far left as Dems have slid they will never have the political courage to push for a total gun banning.

So that takes us back to mental health. If you have a solution to that issue I’m all ears. And I mean that sincerely because other than the over prescribing of drugs to treat these issues I have a hard time figuring out how to reverse this trend.
 

osupsycho

Sheriff
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Apr 20, 2005
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#23
Seems to be a mental health issue more than anything. And I’m not a gun guy. You can take away people’s guns and that won’t bother me or change my life one bit. But I doubt that solves the problem. This shooting appears to prove that assault rifles aren’t necessarily the problem. So if getting rid of some guns is the answer, then I think you have to accept that getting rid of all guns is the only way it will solve anything. But even as far left as Dems have slid they will never have the political courage to push for a total gun banning.

So that takes us back to mental health. If you have a solution to that issue I’m all ears. And I mean that sincerely because other than the over prescribing of drugs to treat these issues I have a hard time figuring out how to reverse this trend.
More inpatient beds for mental issues would be a great start.

"From their historic peak in 1955, the number of state hospital beds in the United States had plummeted almost 97% by 2016. Even when private hospitals are included, the number of psychiatric beds per 100,000 people in the United States ranks the nation 29th among the 34 countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development."

http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/key-issues/bed-shortages
 
May 21, 2007
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#24
It was a EX Marine who wasn’t enough of a man to deal with what he had seen and done during his service.
Wow... just wow. I am too tired to get into the gun debate today.

However, I would like to see OP150 stand in the middle of a VA and repeat this sentence. Or better yet, stand up at a funeral of a service member who just committed suicide and repeat this sentence.

I am trying to read the overall message's posts which has some validity but having hard time getting over this sentence and part of the sentence before.
 
Oct 15, 2003
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#25
Then what do you and kaboy want? Do you want all events at places where people gather to be banned unless at least one armed guard is provided? Or do you all think we have no other choice than to continue to live with mass shootings? It's all a part of what goes with living with the 2nd Amendment and overall, it's a very, very good Amendment.

I don't see how you are supposed to stop a shooter ahead of time any more than you can stop a pregnant woman determined to get an abortion.
yeah, that's it.... and lock up everybody in jail, permanently, because you just don't know when somebody might decide to commit a crime.... right Townie?

Mass shooting are not any worse now than they have ever been

Adding a preliminary estimate of 17 deaths from Parkland to the Mother Jones list brings the total number of deaths up to 816 from 98 mass shootings between 1982 and early 2018 – or just 23 deaths per year. That makes this sort of random mass shooting one of the rarest mortality risks imaginable. Falling or the flu are far more dangerous. Even when it comes to guns, 23 deaths a year pales next to the number of homicides by firearms in 2014 alone, which was 11,208 (69% of all homicides) and the number of suicides by firearms, which was 21,386 (50% of all suicides).

Every time one of these random mass shootings occurs, journalists and legislators invariably seize on the tragedy to lecture about the need for artfully unspecific changes in federal gun control laws. Of all the risks posed by guns or knives, however, random mass shootings are among the least likely.

https://www.cato.org/blog/are-mass-shootings-becoming-more-frequent
 
Aug 30, 2008
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#26
It was a EX Marine who wasn’t enough of a man to deal with what he had seen and done during his service.
Wow... just wow. I am too tired to get into the gun debate today.

However, I would like to see OP150 stand in the middle of a VA and repeat this sentence. Or better yet, stand up at a funeral of a service member who just committed suicide and repeat this sentence.

I am trying to read the overall message's posts which has some validity but having hard time getting over this sentence and part of the sentence before.
Having mentored many veterans trying to break free from the pill induced “healing” of the VA I have shared with them my thoughts and they felt the same once they were to a point of growth.

General Mattis has shared much the same and he is the epitome of a Marine. Google “General Mattis PTSD” and you will get his insight regarding how falling into the PTSD trap is falling into a victim role.

Regarding the rest... been to the funerals too and talked to vets when they are suicidal.

While my resume doesn’t matter and isn’t legendary... I’d say that as a Combat Vet and a Marine, I think I can speak for what I have seen and encountered while at the same time calling out the piece of trash who shot up a bunch of innocent people.
 
May 21, 2007
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#27
Having mentored many veterans trying to break free from the pill induced “healing” of the VA I have shared with them my thoughts and they felt the same once they were to a point of growth.

General Mattis has shared much the same and he is the epitome of a Marine. Google “General Mattis PTSD” and you will get his insight regarding how falling into the PTSD trap is falling into a victim role.

Regarding the rest... been to the funerals too and talked to vets when they are suicidal.

While my resume doesn’t matter and isn’t legendary... I’d say that as a Combat Vet and a Marine, I think I can speak for what I have seen and encountered while at the same time calling out the piece of trash who shot up a bunch of innocent people.
Fair enough
 
Nov 8, 2007
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#28
yeah, that's it.... and lock up everybody in jail, permanently, because you just don't know when somebody might decide to commit a crime.... right Townie?

Mass shooting are not any worse now than they have ever been

Adding a preliminary estimate of 17 deaths from Parkland to the Mother Jones list brings the total number of deaths up to 816 from 98 mass shootings between 1982 and early 2018 – or just 23 deaths per year. That makes this sort of random mass shooting one of the rarest mortality risks imaginable. Falling or the flu are far more dangerous. Even when it comes to guns, 23 deaths a year pales next to the number of homicides by firearms in 2014 alone, which was 11,208 (69% of all homicides) and the number of suicides by firearms, which was 21,386 (50% of all suicides).

Every time one of these random mass shootings occurs, journalists and legislators invariably seize on the tragedy to lecture about the need for artfully unspecific changes in federal gun control laws. Of all the risks posed by guns or knives, however, random mass shootings are among the least likely.

https://www.cato.org/blog/are-mass-shootings-becoming-more-frequent
Well, that can't be right...CNN said there had been over 1,000 deaths from the 300 mass shootings in the last 12 months.......

Yes, this is sarcasm.
 
Mar 9, 2004
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#29
Why not allow concealed carry in the night club? If someone is shooting at me, I'd like to be able to shoot back.
Any establishment that sells alocohol would most likely prefer not to have armed customers. That would probably create more problems than it solves.
We as a country did not see this type of behavior from veterans of WW1, WW2 or Korea where the experiences were much more brutal and savage. Those men dealt with it as adults and went on to serve their family’s and communities during what was one of the most prosperous times of this country’s history.
The theory as to why Vietnam and Iraq/Afghanistan veterans are experienceing higher levels of PTSD is due to the constant threat of attack from a hidden enemy that surrounds you. The ever-present elevated stress of never knowing when the next attack will happen or an IED will go off is thought to be the main cause. This is different than earlier wars when a battle would occur over the course of a few days, savage as it may be, but then there would be down time for the soldiers to recover mentally.
 
Nov 6, 2010
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#30
Seems to be a mental health issue more than anything. And I’m not a gun guy. You can take away people’s guns and that won’t bother me or change my life one bit. But I doubt that solves the problem. This shooting appears to prove that assault rifles aren’t necessarily the problem. So if getting rid of some guns is the answer, then I think you have to accept that getting rid of all guns is the only way it will solve anything. But even as far left as Dems have slid they will never have the political courage to push for a total gun banning.

So that takes us back to mental health. If you have a solution to that issue I’m all ears. And I mean that sincerely because other than the over prescribing of drugs to treat these issues I have a hard time figuring out how to reverse this trend.
I've heard some talk about instituting some sort of intervention process where concerned family members would have the ability to enlist law enforcement to take away guns from someone they felt was having mental issues and dangerous to themselves or others, until the person could be properly evaluated, get help, whatever. I kind of firearm restraining order.
 
Sep 13, 2013
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#31
I've heard some talk about instituting some sort of intervention process where concerned family members would have the ability to enlist law enforcement to take away guns from someone they felt was having mental issues and dangerous to themselves or others, until the person could be properly evaluated, get help, whatever. I kind of firearm restraining order.
That would make too much sense.
 
Jul 20, 2018
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#32
I've heard some talk about instituting some sort of intervention process where concerned family members would have the ability to enlist law enforcement to take away guns from someone they felt was having mental issues and dangerous to themselves or others, until the person could be properly evaluated, get help, whatever. I kind of firearm restraining order.
Some states already have it. A Maryland man was killed by police when they showed up at his house at 5 am to confiscate his guns. He had broken no laws but is now dead.

https://www.ammoland.com/2018/11/ho...-police-trying-confiscate-guns/#axzz5WNRDmTJn
 
Nov 6, 2010
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#33
Jul 20, 2018
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#34
I don't know, maybe brandishing a firearm at the police after they had identified themselves could be considered breaking a law.
It's his house and they were there to take away his 2nd amendment rights. Would you be OK if they were there to confiscate his bibles and all religious materials? How about removing his means of stating his opinions on the internet such as turning off his wifi?

Btw, they showed up at 5 am and were banging on his door. If someone was banging on your door that early in the morning, would you have a gun? I would.
 
Jun 18, 2010
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#35
Mass shooting are not any worse now than they have ever been
You're so all out WRONG it's pitiful. In 2016, the Las Vegas mass shooting was the worst in modern history with 58 dead and 500 injured. In 2017, the mass shooting at Orlando with 49 dead was worse than usual. Maybe you'd sooner forget how bad these shootings have been. Or do you not want to count 2018, because the worse mass shooting had only 19 killed?
 
Nov 6, 2010
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#36
It's his house and they were there to take away his 2nd amendment rights. Would you be OK if they were there to confiscate his bibles and all religious materials? How about removing his means of stating his opinions on the internet such as turning off his wifi?

Btw, they showed up at 5 am and were banging on his door. If someone was banging on your door that early in the morning, would you have a gun? I would.
Hard to say what I'd do, consumption of alcohol, whether the Pokes just got their asses handed to them again, whatever, but I like to think the first thing I would have done is say "who the hell is it?". Then when they say "police", I'm thinking I probably put the piece back in the drawer and get my shit together.
 

Duke Silver

Find safe haven in a warm bathtub full of my jazz.
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#37
Hard to say what I'd do, consumption of alcohol, whether the Pokes just got their asses handed to them again, whatever, but I like to think the first thing I would have done is say "who the hell is it?". Then when they say "police", I'm thinking I probably put the piece back in the drawer and get my shit together.
No "show me some id?" or "What the hell are you doing at my house?"
 
Jul 20, 2018
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#39
Hard to say what I'd do, consumption of alcohol, whether the Pokes just got their asses handed to them again, whatever, but I like to think the first thing I would have done is say "who the hell is it?". Then when they say "police", I'm thinking I probably put the piece back in the drawer and get my shit together.
That's why it's such a good ploy for thieves to pretend to be police.

Glad to know you give up your rights so easily. Me? Not so much. My forefathers fought and died for the rights I have. I'm willing to do the same.